Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[Mandrake]

I still don't really understand why it needs to come off as I helped my Dad remove the dashboard from his 1994 Xantia (again, 15 years ago) and don't remember removing the window scuttle so I'm going to leave it for last and only remove it if I can't find a way to work around it.

D'oh!!

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=28512 - Good description from Jim half way down page 2.

Also viewtopic.php?t=52484 [with scary pictures!] In here Paul (citroenxm) suggests you can do it without removing the scuttle, but if you are chasing a water leak that's no matter. CitroenCrazy has a link to a doc, but it's broken, I'll PM him and see if he can send it to me, and I can up load it somewhere.

Thanks Richard, those posts from CitroJim and Citroenxm are great, although I'm actually more scared by the job now than I was to start with going in a little bit blind. Definitely one that I'm going to have to pick away at carefully over a few days.

Regarding the potential water leak - once the dashboard is out and everything is stripped back I'll sit in the car and get someone to hose the outside of the car while I search for leaks.

The car was so loaded up with moisture due to the wet carpets that I have to wonder whether it could have been condensation on the windscreen running down the back of the dashboard, as the entire inside of the windscreen was frequently covered in condensation in the winter when the car wasn't in use as I had no opportunity to air it out.

If there isn't actually a rainwater leak and I can avoid removing the scuttle as well that will make me very happy.

The carpets all need to come out to be cleaned and thoroughly dried as well (especially the foam underneath no doubt) however it doesn't look like it makes this part of the job any easier having the seats and carpet out so I'll leave that until after the matrix swap I think, in fact I think I'll put the dashboard back in with the carpets out and just leave the centre console out so I can drive and use the car a little while the carpets are out.

[Mandrake]

Picked up those Torx screwdrivers from Screwfix and the T30 one was perfect for removing the airbag - I had it undone in a few seconds versus half an hour of fluffing around with various bits and adaptors without success yesterday.

The screwdriver was just the right length that I could have undone the screw either from above or below the steering cowling. Nice little set of torx drivers that I think I'm going to get good use out of.

[Mandrake]

A progress update after getting a chance to do a bit more today.

I've got the steering wheel off and most wiring etc disconnected, annoyingly a bodge repair I had to make in the past which goes between one of the wires on the key switch and the interior fuse box is going to get in the way and is going to have to be disconnected and remade later... so the inside of the car looks like this at the moment:

However I'm now stumped on the bolts in the scuttle area. According to CitroJim you "just" remove the scuttle and move the wiper motor to get at three 10mm nuts, however CitroenXM says:

"Also there is NO NEED to remove the wiper assey to remove the three dash securing bolts that are behind grommet covers.. a deep 10mm socket on small socket set will get past the wiper arms under the scuttle. Remove the scuttle will be very hard. Indeed if its still citroen original bonded and runs risks of cracking the screen.. yes its bloody hard."

Which to me implies that it's possible to get a socket onto these nuts without moving either the scuttle or wiper motor but on inspection this seems impossible to me!

I can't see or feel any nuts through the gaps in the scuttle and really have no idea where these bolts are:

So despite CitroenXM's comments is the hope of doing this job without removing the scuttle only a pipe dream ? As the photo's will show, the scuttle is going to completely disintegrate if I try...

Is there some difference between S1 and S2 in regards to nuts in the scuttle area ? I'm starting to feel a bit out of my depth now, however I have to press forward as there is no way back now. What possessed Citroen to design the car so that a glued in scuttle has to be removed to access external bolts to remove the dashboard ??!

BTW the new Torx screwdriver set from Screwfix has been invaluable - a proper solid screwdriver is so much better than an attachable bit set. I also have the torx key set from ebay now although I haven't found a need for it yet where the screwdrivers won't do the job, however it should be handy for reassembling the glovebox etc later.

[NewcastleFalcon]

...and I am really chuffed with myself cos I have actually managed to remove the fascia. Now that I have found the 3 nuts behind the windscreen wiper mechanism behind the rubber grommets it came out a bit easier than the last time I tried

As you can see from the quote, my last experience of removing the fascia was 11 years ago, and that was in the process of dismantling a car where the car was scrapped.

Have you identified the three bolts/nuts you need to remove. One each side and one in the middle as far as I can remember with the middle one being lower down. I mention "grommets" (cant recall that bit) and nuts as opposed to Bolts. I think three prongs of threaded rod from the fascia poke through the bulkhead, and nuts secure the fascia.

I can't verify any of that as fact, long time ago when I did it

Regards Neil

[xantia_v6]

I have done the heater matrix on 2 or 3 MK1 Xantia V6s and I am sure that the scuttle trim needs to come off, but not the wiper motor.

There is little chance of breaking the screen if the original seal is still present, if you cut through the seal with a long flexible knife blade. If the trim has been re-bonded with panel adhesive, it will be challenging.

[Mandrake]

The bolts that go through into the scuttle area, do they hold the dashboard in, or do they just mount the heater matrix assembly to the firewall ?

Can I at least get the dashboard off to get a better look at things before I have to tackle the bolts behind the scuttle ?

I presume that when the dashboard is removed the heater matrix assembly is still mounted to the firewall and further disassembly is required to free it from the firewall ?

[NewcastleFalcon]

My recollection is the whole shebang heater matrix and all associated ducting comes away with the dash/fascia when the three nuts/bolts are removed. (definitely nuts engine side of bulkhead even Haynes says so and even gives a pic of one of them!)

para 31 Illustration 27.31
Click to enlarge

Regards Neil

PS another account here which supports my recollection that it is nuts on the engine side of the bulkhead that hold the dash on.

http://autoworld.com.my/forum/index.php ... /?p=497655

Another thing. There are 3 securing nuts in the engine bay section securing
the top of the dash. One at each end and another in center. Need to remove
the scuttle panel (the long black plastic piece under the wiper arms) to
access these nuts. Very very important thing to note. When you refit back
the scuttle panel, you must apply some silicone between the scutter panel
and windscreen on the left part of the screen. You can apply from end to
end if you like too. Reason is rainwater will flow down past the windscreen
and drop right into the Fresh Air Vent. You can see this vent on far left
below windscreen when bonnet is open. Exactly below this vent is the aircon
blower motor. This vent allows fresh air into cabin via the control on the
aircon control panel.

[xantia_v6]

The fasteners under the scuttle hold the dash frame. Maybe the centre one holds the heater box. There is another fastener mentioned in some guides that holds the evaporator box, but on a car with A/C it should not be undone.

[Mandrake]

Thanks guys it looks like I have no choice but to cut the scuttle away. I have a large but flexible carving knife with a sharp point that I’m hoping will do the job. Wish me luck everyone…

[xantia_v6]

I have used a flexible carving knife, but my weapon of choice would be a "hobby knife" with sectioned snap-off blade. Put some tape on the glass to avoid visible scratches.

[Mandrake]

Looks like I've just written off the car.

Trying to get this strip up is nearly impossible. Even with the sharpest strongest knife I have I can barely cut through whatever is holding it on - so an earlier post that mentioned using a box cutter, yeah good luck with that when even a brand new very sharp carving knife can barely touch make a dent on the bonding agent.

Unfortunately I've cracked the glass already after barely even starting:

Given the likely cost of getting someone to replace the windscreen and the work that still needs to be done to get the car MOT ready in just under 2 months I think realistically the car is a write off now and I just have to give up on it.

Utterly frustrated, disgusted, fed up and very angry with the designers of the scuttle and whoever decided dashboard mounting nuts needed to go behind it. This isn't how I wanted Xantia ownership to end.

[Skull]

Looks like I've just written off the car.
Unfortunately I've cracked the glass already after barely even starting:

Anybody else think that bead is thicker than original

Remember you might get windscreen cover on your insurance if applicable

[Mandrake]

Looks like I've just written off the car.
Unfortunately I've cracked the glass already after barely even starting:

Anybody else think that bead is thicker than original

Remember you might get windscreen cover on your insurance if applicable

Bead ?

I've checked my insurance and I do have windscreen cover - with a £100 excess for replacement.

Unfortunately from further attempting to cut the strip away I now have another separate crack radiating from near the same corner along with a small fingernail sized chunk of glass under the edge of the strip right in the corner that has lifted away from the window when I tried to lift the corner that I thought was already adequately separated, so things are just going from bad to worse.

On the other hand there has been a white splotch in that corner of the glass since I've had the car which makes me wonder if there has been a crack at the edge of the screen letting moisture into the layers and trying to cut the strip away has allowed that crack to grow.

So I don't know whether I could blag it on insurance or not. The only way I might be able to do that is to press forward with trying to cut the strip away, do the matrix repair, put everything back together, stick the strip back down with some black silicone, then make a claim.... (It's no good trying to do a claim when the car is half dismantled and even if they went for it I'd then have to undo their work to get the strip out again almost certainly breaking the new glass)

Not the sort of thing I would usually do but if its the difference between getting rid of the car and keeping it..... also the insurance does say that it covers "accidental damage" to the windscreen - I would class this as accidental!!!

I wonder if a professional glass replacement includes a new scuttle - I can't see them reusing this one as it's in a terrible state, and unlikely to ever be waterproof again.

Interestingly when I checked on autoglass's website it claims they can still supply them and have done two windscreen replacements on Xantia's in the last 6 months which was more than the zero I was expecting!

[Hell Razor5543]

I seem to recall somebody having a windscreen issue, got a scuttle, and the fitters were really glad to see that!

[Mandrake]

I seem to recall somebody having a windscreen issue, got a scuttle, and the fitters were really glad to see that!

So they're unlikely to be sourcing a new scuttle then. Good luck to them doing the job then!

Are new scuttles even available at all ?