Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[Mandrake]

Got an email back from Cleevely tonight - they are fully booked now until the 2nd week of August so they're off the table now, I can't wait that long. Transport was going to be too expensive anyway.

Will just have to phone around in Scotland and see what I can find closer to home. Talk about frustrating.

[Hell Razor5543]

Just make sure the transport company knows what they are doing. I have just had a bad experience with a company who was ignorant of the Citroen suspension, and appears to have damaged it on my C5 (they appear to dispute this).

[NewcastleFalcon]

Will just have to phone around in Scotland and see what I can find closer to home. Talk about frustrating.

If you can find someone to take it on, best they can do is provide an estimate of labour hours based on the spec for what you want them to do, and that is probably best written down so both sides know what is expected. Can't imagine any warranties or guarantees will come with the work done. They cant verify the soundness of the replacement box, wont have ready access to ancillary bits needed eg driveshaft oil seals.

If you are struggling, I wouldn't rule out a call/visit to that outfit in Rutherglen. You have a particular problem which in spite of their clear policy statement as quoted in the FAQ's, is a bit different to the norm. Your gearbox problem cannot be solved by a rebuild with new parts...they aren't available...so the only solution is to remove the old box and replace with the secondhand one you have sourced. If you are desperate they may help with a bit of persuasion.

If you are really really desperate...what about a mobile mechanic to assist with any equipment they can provide to do it at home and make it safe, and the chance for you to "supervise and contribute" which you will never get from a garage.

If you are completely at the end of your tether and judge the only way this is going to happen is if you do it yourself, or with Richard's help if the offer is still on the table, is removing the charger to gain access to the lifting or lowering eye on the box a possibility without too many consequential ramifications?

I don't pretend to have any solutions just some suggestions, and hope you find not just anyone, but someone you have confidence in to get the job done, and to do it well.

REgards Neil

[Mandrake]

I'm seriously reconsidering doing this myself. Nobody seems to be interested in doing this job and/or they want to charge a fortune on top of transporting the car...

Lowering it out the bottom with a jack seems to be the only way - I was taking some measurements tonight to try to figure this out.

The ground clearance of the subframe on the car when it's standing normally on the ground is just under 200mm. The gearbox is about 300mm "tall". (it lies on its side really)

I have two jacks at the moment but they are quite small, they have a minimum lift height of 160mm and maximum lift height of 320mm - so a travel of only 160mm, which is nowhere near enough.

My existing axle stands have a minimum height of 280mm and maximum of 400mm. Another option for propping up the car securely is my wheel ramps with a large wooden sleeper block on top under the body/chassis area behind the engine bay.

I think I would need a table jack which would go down to 100mm or less, and up to at least 400mm preferably more to have any hope of doing this on a driveway.

I'd also need an extra pair of axle stands to prop up the motor. If I also had the chain lift from above I could reduce the requirements of the jack somewhat - the jack could support the gearbox while being unbolted and moved to the left of the car, then the chain lift could be attached to the eye hook once the gearbox was clear of the rest of the stack allowing the jack to be removed and the gearbox lowered to a skid on the ground without the jack.

Even if I have to buy a bigger jack, it might be worth it for future use - both my jacks are not really adequate for general use anyway - their minimum height is too high to easily get under the Leaf with a spacer block, and they don't have enough lift range, making some jobs quite difficult as I have to keep swapping between jack and axle stands to get the car high enough.

I have quite the list of things I'd need to do this job:

Definite:

* Moly grease for the splines
* Two new driveshaft seals (should I replace the seal on the motor input spline as well ? Not sure how easy that will be to get out or whether it should be fine, I also think it's above the oil level in the gearbox)
* New hub nut split pits - I've already had them off and on once, doing it again they're likely to break when I bend them
* Bottom hub balljoint nuts and possibly track rod end nuts - not sure what size either are
* Extra pair of axle stands - I have four now but only two have flat tops for supporting the structure of the car and they're a bit marginal in size and reach.
* Low profile higher lift jack

Possibly optional:

* Chain lift (can get one for about £42 that looks suitable)
* Build a saw horse to sit over the car to attach the chain lift to - have the wood already

Anyone any thoughts on this ? Am I overlooking something ? I'm getting a sinking feeling that doing this job myself might be the only way unless I want to really pay through the nose and/or have a long wait. I'd rather put the money towards equipment I can use in the future like a much better jack, more axle stands, chain lift etc than spend it all on a one off repair.

To help with getting things the right height I do have several large wooden sleepers and a big pile of driveway slabs - both of which could have axle stands etc on to help adjust the height of everything.

[Gibbo2286]

A pity you're not closer to me I have most of the kit to do that job and wouldn't mind helping but I'm as far away from you here in the Forest of Dean as Cheltenham.

If I were you I'd search around near home for a really competent mechanic, I'm sure there has to be one who isn't frightened of the 'newness' of the job, many such guys earn a few quid 'on the side' outside their day jobs.

[Mandrake]

It's had it anyway, and needs to come out!

Always best to replace the driveshaft seals when the shafts are taken out, unless you're very careful it's easy to snag the seal when the shaft is pulled out, then it will leak. These should be easily available from Nissan. Looks like here: https://www.autofixa.com/3834231X00/p0/ They also appear to list a full box, at a shade over £3.5k https://www.autofixa.com/320103NA0A/p0/

Hi Richard,

Unfortunately they only have one seal available, also that part number is out of production has been superseded - I'm trying to find the new part number but no luck yet. With a 7 day lead time on seals (at least from that source) I better get a couple ordered soon whether I do this myself or hand the seals with the gearbox to whoever does it..

These appear to be the right seals but I've never heard of any of these makes....

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/3834231x00

When I ordered the suspension arm for the Xantia from autodoc it took nearly 3 weeks...

[mickthemaverick]

To offer another view Simon, I would suggest the most important thing you will need is another pair of hands. If Richard is willing that's great, but if not then you need to find someone else with mechanical knowhow. When you are operating and manoeuvering the jack underneath you will need someone to balance it from above to ensure it doesn't topple off the jack. Likewise when raising the replacement box into position. I don't think you will need a ratchet hoist above, just a substantial beam across the car and a ratchet strap to take the 24kg weight of the box as a safety measure. I would use your available funds to buy a decent trolley jack (something like this on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203523412566 ... SwYsVg7FgY) and then my method would be:

Chock the rear wheels and then jack up the front end of the car and support with axle stands behind the bonnet aperture. Remove wheels and driveshafts etc. Place safety beam across and ratchet strap ready to hook onto gearbox. Use the trolley jack to take the weight of the motor assembly off the mounts and remove the mountings. Lower the motor assembly onto axle stand/s clear of the gearbox bolts. Place the jack under the gearbox and just ensure it will take the weight with the jack able to roll out to the side. Remove any connectors, cables etc out of the way and then undo the gearbox bolts and ease the box out to clear the lifting ring. Attach the ratchet strap to the ring and take the gearbox weight on the strap, leaving the motor supported on the axle stands. Release the jack and reposition to pull out to the front and then take the weight back on the jack. Then release the ratchet strap bit by bit while lowering the jack until you are clear and withdraw the box!! Replacement would be a virtual reversing of the procedure having replaced seals etc ready to refit. If I lived closer I'd be happy to come and help but the simple cost of a return trip to you would render that as an expensive idea!

[xantia_v6]

I would suggest that you may have more working room if you suspend the motor from above, rather than below. With the weights in question a cheap ratchet tiedown would take the weight of the motor (I have lifted out an ES9 engine with 4hp20 attached using 4 tiedowns as a hoist).

If you can keep the wheels on (or replace them after removing the driveshafts), then ramps under the front wheels would be the best thing for working underneath.

[Mandrake]

Chock the rear wheels and then jack up the front end of the car and support with axle stands behind the bonnet aperture. Remove wheels and driveshafts etc. Place safety beam across and ratchet strap ready to hook onto gearbox. Use the trolley jack to take the weight of the motor assembly off the mounts and remove the mountings. Lower the motor assembly onto axle stand/s clear of the gearbox bolts. Place the jack under the gearbox and just ensure it will take the weight with the jack able to roll out to the side. Remove any connectors, cables etc out of the way and then undo the gearbox bolts and ease the box out to clear the lifting ring. Attach the ratchet strap to the ring and take the gearbox weight on the strap, leaving the motor supported on the axle stands. Release the jack and reposition to pull out to the front and then take the weight back on the jack. Then release the ratchet strap bit by bit while lowering the jack until you are clear and withdraw the box!! Replacement would be a virtual reversing of the procedure having replaced seals etc ready to refit. If I lived closer I'd be happy to come and help but the simple cost of a return trip to you would render that as an expensive idea!

Unfortunately the lifting eye on the gearbox is totally inaccessible when the gearbox is in place - not sure why they bothered to include it to be honest. The inverter overhangs the gearbox with almost no clearance, so I can't see any way to get at the lifting eye until the gearbox is already separated and slid sideways significantly.

[mickthemaverick]

Chock the rear wheels and then jack up the front end of the car and support with axle stands behind the bonnet aperture. Remove wheels and driveshafts etc. Place safety beam across and ratchet strap ready to hook onto gearbox. Use the trolley jack to take the weight of the motor assembly off the mounts and remove the mountings. Lower the motor assembly onto axle stand/s clear of the gearbox bolts. Place the jack under the gearbox and just ensure it will take the weight with the jack able to roll out to the side. Remove any connectors, cables etc out of the way and then undo the gearbox bolts and ease the box out to clear the lifting ring. Attach the ratchet strap to the ring and take the gearbox weight on the strap, leaving the motor supported on the axle stands. Release the jack and reposition to pull out to the front and then take the weight back on the jack. Then release the ratchet strap bit by bit while lowering the jack until you are clear and withdraw the box!! Replacement would be a virtual reversing of the procedure having replaced seals etc ready to refit. If I lived closer I'd be happy to come and help but the simple cost of a return trip to you would render that as an expensive idea!

Unfortunately the lifting eye on the gearbox is totally inaccessible when the gearbox is in place - not sure why they bothered to include it to be honest. The inverter overhangs the gearbox with almost no clearance, so I can't see any way to get at the lifting eye until the gearbox is already separated and slid sideways significantly.

Yes I realise that Simon, which is why I said, ease it out to clear the ring before attaching the strap! I think Chris is right about supporting the motor unit from the beam above with a couple of straps rather than stands below. That would considerably improve the access.

[Mandrake]

I would suggest that you may have more working room if you suspend the motor from above, rather than below. With the weights in question a cheap ratchet tiedown would take the weight of the motor (I have lifted out an ES9 engine with 4hp20 attached using 4 tiedowns as a hoist).

That's an interesting idea, if I did build the saw horse to sit above the car. One possible problem is that the strap would really need to go in front and behind - and the behind side of the stack is WAY behind the lip of the engine bay, by probably 10" or more, so that strap would be pulling on the scuttle or if the scuttle was removed, the window glass, which protrudes a long way into the engine bay. Photo for perspective:

The whole stack is probably around 120-150Kg.

If you can keep the wheels on (or replace them after removing the driveshafts), then ramps under the front wheels would be the best thing for working underneath.

That was my thought at first too - disconnect the bottom of the hubs to swing them out enough to detach the driveshafts then reattach them and put the wheels back on to sit on ramps. But I think it would be much easier to simply support the car under the suspension chassis near the front doors using large wooden sleeper blocks on top of the ramps - should be pretty solid (certainly far more stable than two axle stands) and leave lots of access to the gearbox from all sides that I wouldn't have if the wheels were still in place. Also I think the wheels resting normally on the stands would not give enough ground clearance to get the gearbox out as my stands are not particularly tall ones.

[Mandrake]

Regarding Jacks, I like the look of something like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402649100092

Not just for this job but also for making my life much easier doing car work in future as my existing jacks are really not up to snuff and are one thing that put me off doing car jobs lately...

75mm to 510mm should be more than enough travel for this job - will also go under the Leaf (with a load spreading block on top) MUCH easier than my current jacks that can only go down to 160mm, lift much higher, the lifting point is much wider and flatter, the stance of the jack is much wider and more stable as well. Should make many of the jobs I try to do SO much easier.

Yeah it's a little over £100 but I think money well spent for future use. Will have a browse around at jacks of this size and price to see what else is available.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Nice to visualise the scene of the job just for the rest of us taking an interest and hopefully offering a bit of support. Is this the scene where the job is most likely to be done

Your slope doesn't appear like the North face of the Eiger from the photo and it looks a good solid surface. I've seen worse places to tackle a bit of vehicle maintenance like the unmade road outside mine!

Just a question of getting the car 100% safe and high enough to give room for access to those mountings at the back without your head being within a couple of inches of the underside of the car. The slope may even be an advantage with the front end towards the bottom.

Total belt and braces needed on the support however is fathomed to do it of the stack and the box and the car. Here the slope may be a disadvantage with stands needing a level surface for max stability.

Nicked the pic from earlier in the thread, hope you don't mind.



REgards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

That jack looks ok to me. The only thing I'd be wary of in your jack hunt is Draper Jacks. Avoid!!! I had the seal burst on one on its 3rd job!! It was ditched and replaced. You might also find a transmission cradle useful, something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351279015010 ... SwpSBgsRLn

[Mandrake]

That jack looks ok to me. The only thing I'd be wary of in your jack hunt is Draper Jacks. Avoid!!! I had the seal burst on one on its 3rd job!! It was ditched and replaced. You might also find a transmission cradle useful, something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351279015010 ... SwpSBgsRLn

I'm liking the look of this one even better, and I think it has a hole (with removable bolt) in the lifting point that would attach to a transmission cradle ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164405903837

The handle is removable too, not the case on all jacks of this size I've looked at.