Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by white exec »

I like them as a supplier. Huge choice of brands for a given item, and all decently cross-referenced and searchable by anyone's (eg Citroen's) part numbers. Drawings and dimensions too.

Have been scratching around looking for a good old-fashioned radiator "blanking cap" - the sort with no pressure-relief gubbins, just a flat rubber washer. Resorted to a google search, and ended up wading through Jaguar, original Mini and tractor parts! Finally, an old Unipart part number found, a GRC (general radiator cap!) 201. Stuck that into Mister Auto, and bingo, a QH (remember them?) FC57. FC? Flat Cap, would you believe! Giveaway price, and a couple now on their way.

What for, you ask? The BX is getting an expansion tank, and so the existing radiator cap needs swapping for a non-valve one. Expansion tank is Febi item for a BMW Mini, also from M.A. Had a choice of about six makes of that, too. Good, innit?

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ksanturion10
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by ksanturion10 »

Following with interest, if the new oil will cure the thiking noise :)

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

Some things have just occurred to me - I'll need a new nylock nut for the lower ball joint - I think I still have a few in a bag that I bought way back when Richard helped me change the lower ball joint, so hopefully I can find them in the mess that is the garage... :shock:

However do I need new bolts for the chassis side of the arm or should they be reusable? I've never looked closely at those bolts to see if they're the kind that will rust and need to be cut off with a grinder or whether they'll remove and refit ok. Anyone have any experiences on removing and refitting those bush mounting bolts or whether they've had to cut them off and replace them? Do they also have nylock nuts that need replacing?

Also does anyone have the torque figures for the bottom ball joint nut and also the bolts that hold the arm onto the car?? :)

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

If you are lucky it will be straightforward.

If not it will fall into the category predictable nightmare.

For me it was just that. Combined with working outside in light drizzle, (with full soaking properties I have to add), has finally made me realise that sometimes its better just to pay someone to do it, even with a bargain basement car.

Here is the lower arm finally off the Micra, no bolts were preserved in removing it, and access for a normal sized angle grinder was impossible, and a dremel with a "dentist's drill" extension was not that good either. Drop link of course destroyed in the dismantling. Grinding the head of the bolt or the nut off was in slice the subframe territory, so the only way it came out was slicing through the arm itself.

Image

Replacement bolts tend to be a ridiculous price for what they are, and obviously not in stock anywhere for my 16 year old Micra, but luckily I have an Agricultural engineers I use which carry all sorts of bolts I have used for years, and they were able to match them up.

Good luck Simon, and pick a nice day, warm with 0% chance of precipitation :-D

Regards Neil

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by harryp »

Simon, I re-use nyloc nuts in an emergency by a good clout on the nyloc end with the nut on a firm surface. Hasn't failed in many 10's of years. HTH!
Regards

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

Busy day out in the sun* today working on the Xantia... :)

First up was the coolant change - apart from struggling to reach and manipulate the drain plug tap on the bottom of the radiator (which seems to be completely obscured by the pipes to the A/C compressor) this went fairly smoothly. I'd ordered two 5 litre bottles expecting the 8 litre system to require maybe 6 litres - however it only seemed to need about 4.8 litres ? Oh well, I have another bottle spare for next time! ;)

Very easy to bleed system on the ES9J4 compared to some engines - just open all four bleed points, gradually fill and close each one in turn, I then just let it idle with the expansion bottle cap removed until the thermostat opened, no other bleeding was required, and I didn't need a header tank or anything like that.

I had the Lexia connected while it idled so I could monitor the temperature at the thermostat (where the green sensor is) and I noted that the thermostat opened at 81C - seems a bit low to me but within spec? That is a new thermostat fitted just a few years ago. The radiator fans switched on to low at 93C and back off at 90C so all good there too.

Next up was the oil and filter change - quite uneventful there apart from the 30 minute search through the house and garage to find the oil filter removal tool and drain plug adaptor set which of course was in the very last place I looked. #-o Usually this takes a little under 5 litres and sure enough it took 4.75 litres to get just above the half way mark. When I put the air filter box back in I also fitted the new air filter.

After the oil and filter change the engine does seem a lot quieter and the ticky lifter was much quieter than previously. How much of that is the fact that it's just a new filter and new oil (since modern oils lose their viscosity as they age, and a clogged filter can reduce oil pressure) and how much is because I went for 10w40 instead of the 5w40 that I've always used in this car previously I don't know. My gut feeling is that the 5w40 is a bit thin for the relatively mild winters we have here and maybe on an old engine with troublesome hydraulic lifters a slightly thicker oil might be beneficial. Time will tell I guess.

It was at this point I noticed one of the jubilee clips on the inlet pipe on the hydraulic pump was moving around with engine vibration... Huh? Looking closer I discovered that BOTH jubilee clips on the short joiner section of hose that the V6 hydraulic pump has had rusted and split in half on the opposite side to the screw... They were both still sitting there but were no longer clamping the hose.... #-o

Unfortunately I only had the same kind of jubilee clips available to replace them so I don't know how long they'll last but at least it is clamped properly again for now. Out for a test drive and the ride seems considerably smoother and more "stable" feeling than recently - how much of that is just that the suspension has been up and down a few times during the work today and how much could be that I might have solved an air leak on the suction side of the pump I didn't even know existed I don't know. Again time will tell.

I noticed the rear brakes were not working properly on this test drive (the rear hitting the top bump stops when braking sometimes) so back on the driveway to bleed the rear brakes - the first one gave a load of fine froth (rather than large bubbles) after quite a delay while the other side gave nothing so the froth must have been in the common section of pipe upstream of where the two sides join.

I've had to bleed the rear brakes twice in the last few months already and had assumed that I have a nitrogen bubbling sphere in the rear suspension (probably the anti-sink sphere) but it now seems possible that there has been an air leak at the pump inlet pipe for a while now.

So all in all, very happy with todays work and as a reward I plan to take the Xantia to the beach tomorrow instead of the Leaf that we took last time to give it a proper run. :lol:

The clonk/rattle in the front right suspension is still quite evident - and looking at the rear bush on that arm it does look pretty bad. I haven't been able to find the nylock nuts that I thought I had, (I'm sure I had several nuts of the correct size but I could only find the size for the droplinks) so I think I'll have to order a nut - the original nut is massively rusted so I'd rather not reuse it.

Unfortunately the arm hasn't arrived yet - I ordered it on ebay from carpartsinmotion and on Friday received a box from Hermes - which was empty with a huge hole in the top corner of the box you could put your arm inside. :roll: The only thing inside was a bit of brown paper, not even a packing slip. The driver even commented that the box was "light" but handed it over anyway, when I noticed it was in fact empty and said so she phoned up head office who told her that as it's not a tracked parcel I'd just have to go back to the seller. #-o The make matters even stranger the sender on the label was "Tetrosyl Express" who are a car parts seller that I've never heard of or dealt with before and who don't seem to be connected directly to carpartsinmotion.

So I contacted them on ebay on Friday and I'm glad to report that I got a reply today asking if I wanted another one sent out or a refund, no quibbling at all - so I'm hopeful I will have it in a few days. In the meantime I'll need to try to source a new nut.

The bolts on the arm and the ball joint nut are REALLY rusty, I don't think it will go willingly so I think I'll have quite a fight on my hands. In fact the suspension components are really rusty - I guess this is what happens to a car that sits outside hardly being used! :(

* The day started out sunny but when I was just packing up for the day it started snowing hard!! :twisted:

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CitroJim
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by CitroJim »

Good work Simon :D Amazing how Jubilee clips can rust through and yet not provoke a leak!

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
12 Apr 2021, 05:10
Good work Simon :D Amazing how Jubilee clips can rust through and yet not provoke a leak!
The hose they clamp is already a very tight fit, and in use it is slightly under vacuum so if anything it will draw in air instead of leak.

When the engine is not running there is probably enough surface tension in the oil to stop it running out a tiny gap.

I’m more surprised that both hose clamps split - although they only have a tiny bit of meat to the side of each worm gear slot so that would seem to be a weak point.

I’ll have to try to get some wider ones with a bit more meat to them.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by RichardW »

Try some fuel line clamps if you can get them in the right size - much more solid than a jubilee!!

The bolts on the suspension arm always looks rusty, a bit of clean with a wire brush and some penetrant will help, but the impact driver should whizz them off. The front pivot is 18mm IIRC which is a bit of an odd size. I wouldn't worry too much about re-using nylocks, almost certainly if you take it to a garage they will refit the originals.... I may well have one the right size for the bottom ball joint here, I'll have a look. I've never actually had an arm out, but you need to be very careful about what you do with the roll bar when refitting, the numerous tales of the front height getting screwed up by ham fisted mechanics doing this job speak for themselves!! Have you got a ball joint splitter? Otherwise it's a well aimed hammer blow or two!

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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by white exec »

The real problem with jubilee/worm clips on this critical suction hose is that these clips are not circular, and so can distort the hose. Better to use a genuinely circular clip (the sort you nip up with pincers) - handy kits of them on Amazon.
The ones with the little tongue/tang and perforated band are releasable, too.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

Sorry to leave everyone hanging - just got bogged down in non car related stuff!
RichardW wrote:
12 Apr 2021, 09:46
Try some fuel line clamps if you can get them in the right size - much more solid than a jubilee!!
Yeah I'll need to measure the diameter (which is quite a bit larger than typical fuel lines, around 20mm I think) and see if some are available in the right size yet still compact. I've used them before on certain hoses.
The bolts on the suspension arm always looks rusty, a bit of clean with a wire brush and some penetrant will help, but the impact driver should whizz them off.
Ah yes I forgot I had an impact driver! I just need to find it... :lol: The only problem is it is quite big so the car will need to be quite high off the ground to actually get it underneath. Also I'll need to check whether I have impact sockets in the correct sizes. I do have quite a few impact sockets in my socket set but not all sizes.
The front pivot is 18mm IIRC which is a bit of an odd size. I wouldn't worry too much about re-using nylocks, almost certainly if you take it to a garage they will refit the originals.... I may well have one the right size for the bottom ball joint here, I'll have a look.
I've found the nylock nuts I was looking for - when we did that ball joint I bought a few and as it happens I still have two of them left. I also found an unused ball joint so that makes 3 nuts!
I've never actually had an arm out, but you need to be very careful about what you do with the roll bar when refitting, the numerous tales of the front height getting screwed up by ham fisted mechanics doing this job speak for themselves!!
Yeah I'll be careful. I suppose if I pop the dog bone link off I can disconnect the height corrector without losing the height adjustment as I don't have a level enough driveway to set the height accurately. (Wonky slabs!)
Have you got a ball joint splitter? Otherwise it's a well aimed hammer blow or two!
I've got two - one just a cast Y fork type, (which might damage the boot) the other a pincer type with a bolt - I think the latter is the one we used when we changed the ball joint ?

The replacement arm (take two!) has arrived at the mother in laws but I haven't been over to pick it up (or inspect it) yet as I decided that I'm too busy this week to attempt a job of that scale and I'm not really ready to do it yet anyway - I need to gather together the right tools and bits and pieces, and also get my home made laser pointer wheel alignment system back up and running so I can check the wheel alignment after swapping the arm.

So I'd rather make sure I have everything prepared and ready before I start - so possibly next weekend.
white exec wrote:
12 Apr 2021, 12:36
The real problem with jubilee/worm clips on this critical suction hose is that these clips are not circular, and so can distort the hose. Better to use a genuinely circular clip (the sort you nip up with pincers) - handy kits of them on Amazon.
The ones with the little tongue/tang and perforated band are releasable, too.
The wall thickness of this hose section is really thick (about 5mm thick on a 20mm hose) so distortion of the hose isn't really a problem.

Circular clips that need a pincer tool to fit them aren't an option as the working space is REALLY tight in that area, especially the bottom clip. Even with a small jubilee clip and a short stubby screw driver with the top removed from the ECU box it's a very tight squeeze to get a hand/tool in there to fit the clips so a pincer tool the size of a pair of pliers would be impossible short of removing the radiator...

In other news, the car has been driven a number of times in the last week including several trips to the recycling centre and I have to say it is running very nicely.

Fixing the clips on the inlet hydraulic pipe definitely seems to have had a long lasting effect on the ride quality - which is very nice now considering that the spheres are coming up 6 years old...

Also the engine is running quite obviously better since the oil/filter change. The valve gear noise is dramatically reduced, the engine seems smoother and more willing and feels nice and zippy, it even seems to idle smoother now. :)

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

When citronut helped me replace the wishbones on my Xantia he told me not to tighten the securing bolts (past finger tight) until the car was taking the weight on her wheels, and at the normal ride height. Doing this would allow the bushes to find their natural position, thereby allowing them to have a long life. There is enough room to gain access to the bolts with a torque wrench with her at normal height.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

More frustration with the suspension arm... :x

First time I received an empty box, then they resent the arm which arrived last week (but I've only had a chance to collect it from the inlaw today) and someone has decided that just wrapping it in a black plastic bag with no padding is acceptable. :evil: It just boggles my mind how slap dash this is.
IMG_4466.JPEG
Predictably, it's suffered a fall somewhere during transport (probably thrown into the back of a courier van) which has bent the metal frame around the front bush:
IMG_4468.JPEG
IMG_4469.JPEG
The bent over edge is far too stiff to straighten with the bush in place and the sharp edge is digging into the edge of the rubber a bit which might cause it to cut into the rubber with movement.

So the question is what to do about it? Just make do and hope it will be ok or send it back for a refund and yet another delay and possibly having to pay return postage?

Really not happy, and very unimpressed with the lack of care in packaging and sending this arm on both occasions.

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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by white exec »

Mail them a photo of the damaged item and the "packaging".
Ask for another, for immediate dispatch.
Return the damaged one, if they ask for it.
Disgusting.

Mister Auto would have sent one of those out in a gigantic, padded box, if my delivery from them today is anything to go by.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by bobins »

white exec wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 19:46
Mail them a photo of the damaged item and the "packaging".


Mister Auto would have sent one of those out in a gigantic, padded box, if my delivery from them today is anything to go by.
The odd thing is that I've had loads of things from CarPartsInMotion from small parts to coil springs, and they've all come - without exception - well packaged and without issue. I don't think it helps that the courier depot that serves Simon's area appears to be staffed with neanderthals :(