Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

Moderators: RichardW, myglaren

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

mickthemaverick wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 20:18
Sorry Simon I didn't make myself clear. What I was wondering was how ambient temperature may affect charging efficiency and hence power consumed versus range gained per £ of electricity used compared to summer time. :)
Ah I see. Well only time will tell what the efficiency of the Leaf is in the winter, check back in a few months. :)

Charging efficiency doesn't really drop that much in the winter, it's mainly consumption that increases.

The internal resistance of the traction battery does increase when it's very cold, however I^2*R losses caused by increased resistance affect you mostly at high power levels - eg higher acceleration or during rapid charging. At the relatively low charging rates at home (6.6kW) it has negligible effect, less than 1%.

The battery internal resistance does cause increased losses under high acceleration so driving more conservatively will minimise the increased losses in a cold battery. (Avoid flooring it when the battery is cold in other words)

Cold batteries are not as bad as they sound though because driving or charging the car warms the battery up quite a lot and it has a very large thermal mass so it takes many many hours to cool down. So even if its getting down to -5C overnight as long as the car is driven every day the battery won't actually be falling below about 5C over night. It would have to be left unused for multiple days where even peak temperatures in the day were freezing before the battery would fall to freezing temperatures.

Usable capacity of the battery can reduce below freezing - so some of the winter range loss of an EV is due to less of the capacity of the battery being accessible, however this is a temporary loss which returns when the battery warms up again.

In Scandinavian or Canadian climates most EV's have a battery heater to minimise these losses and also allow the battery to charge faster as the charging speed of a very cold battery has to be limited to protect it from damage. (Dendrite growth) While some EV models in the UK include battery heating many don't and it's not really required in the UK unless you want the maximum possible rapid charging speeds in very cold winters.

The biggest factor in winter is probably heating to warm the car, which of course increases consumption, but apparently other factors like colder air being thicker and more draggy are a factor too at higher speeds...

Heated seats and steering wheel is a far more efficient way to warm yourself than hot air temperature in the cabin so if you're trying to squeeze as many miles out as you can in the winter reducing the cabin temperature and turning on heated seats can make quite a difference and to be honest I find it more comfortable to have heated seats on and the air temperature reduced a bit than having hot stuffy air and no seat heating.

User avatar
DHallworth
Donor 2016
Posts: 2254
Joined: 20 Nov 2005, 18:05
x 63

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by DHallworth »

Simon, just a thought, if you’re not happy with the Cross Climates due to the sidewalls being stiff, have a look at the Pilot Sport 4S if they’re available in your size/. They’ve got a very soft sidewall.

This is a PS4S on my Jag with 36psi in it!
86026156-DC95-4C2A-B775-6C7D73E4EB18.jpeg
DB58662F-329A-4776-BEF7-3BEC370D7F2E.jpeg
I’ve just put CC’s on Cheryl’s C4 and haven’t noticed the same difference in ride quality that you have unfortunately.

David.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

A check-in on the CrossClimate+ front.

I've settled on 34psi (2psi below normal) and I guess got used to the harsher ride quality to some degree. I just wish they would make a non-XL rated version as it's otherwise a very good tyre. (Sadly the majority of all season tyres are XL rated in most sizes)

One thing that has really impressed me though is the wet grip is absolutely staggering on them. Far beyond any tyre I've driven on before. While I'm sure it's not true it literally doesn't feel like they lose any grip going from a dry summer day to a cold wet road in the pouring rain.

I can push the car around a large roundabout just as fast at 4C in pouring rain as I can on a dry warm day with zero understeer - it feels planted and exactly the same in the wet as the dry. Quite an accomplishment.

By comparison the Summer Michelin Energy Savers on the Xantia have no understeer in the dry but very noticeable understeer in the wet - and they still have plenty of tread left. You can definitely feel the difference between dry and wet grip there.

It looks like the crazy V groove pattern really does move a lot of water in the wet, and it copes admirably with standing water - not even the slightest hint of loss of grip let alone aquaplaning that you can sometimes get on a summer tyre.

I can floor the accelerator while the car is stopped in standing water and (straight ahead at least) not have any wheel spin. Likewise I can brake hard in the wet with no ABS action. The Dunlop Enasave were a nightmare in the wet - anything other than gingerly applying the throttle in the wet at a traffic light would lead to wheelspin and braking in the wet was frequently punctuated with ABS action.

So for wet rainy winter conditions I think you would struggle to find a safer tyre than the CrossClimate+ - it really does instil confidence when driving in the wet. I'm yet to use them in ice/snow conditions so I'm yet to see how it fares there. Assuming we get any this winter!

When you do lose grip in the wet, such as using a lot of power on a tight corner and having the front inside wheel slip, the Dunlops would just outright spin like mad until you removed all power, the CrossClimate+ does a sort of a "hop" then grabs and digs in again even if you reduce the power just slightly. So it's more of a blip that you can fix with a slight easing of the throttle than an embarrassing complete loss of traction and uncontrolled wheelspin.

As well as the strange noise they make under acceleration they have another interesting characteristic which I assume is caused by the isolated flexible tread blocks, and that is that it "dulls" the edge of the acceleration of the car noticeably and gives a slight "quicksand" feeling.

On the old Dunlop Summer tyres when you were doing say 20mph and floored the accelerator the response was completely instant - you'd be pushed hard back into your seat with zero lag and zero noise.

With the CrossClimate+ not only do they make a swishing noise as soon as you accelerate (presumably the tread blocks flexing and rubbing against each other) you can feel a slight lag to the acceleration which I think is simply the torque of the tyre twisting the tread blocks in the direction of acceleration. The lag is literally the twisting of the unsupported tread blocks under load where the tyre can turn slightly before the car actually moves.

Summer tyres usually have circumferential ring stabilised tread blocks - where you have several rings of tread that go all the way around the perimeter without interruption and the tread blocks are attached to those rings. The Energy Savers are like that. That means under acceleration the semi-attached tread blocks don't twist away in response to torque, so you get a sharper more instant response to acceleration. But on the CrossClimate+ each V groove is isolated from the next - there are no circumferential rings to stabilise them.

I guess the trade off here is circumferential rings give better acceleration response but "trap" water in the centre grooves and is thus more prone to aquaplaning once those grooves are "full" of water, while the isolated V grooves on the CrossClimate+ mean that water always has a path from the centre of the tyre to the outside - so no matter how deep the water is, it can be expelled through the V grooves to the outside of the tyre and avoid aquaplaning. So you can have sharp acceleration response or strong aquaplaning resistance, but not both in a tyre.

This slight twisting of the tread blocks also probably helps to avoid wheel spin on sudden application of power as it will soften the edge of the acceleration slightly and avoid the tread instantly breaking away from the ground, and probably contributes to that "hop" then grab again feeling that the tyre has when it does break traction slightly.

I'm still toying with the idea of getting some smaller 205/55/16 summer tyres and wheels to use in the summer for better ride quality and range and keep the cross climates and larger wheels for the winter, but that means finding a set of wheels, finding a set of tyre pressure sensors and having them paired to the car etc...and then buying a second set of tyres.

It's a lot of extra expense basically to improve the ride quality for 9 months of the year so I'm still on the fence about it at the moment.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

And an update on the Leaf itself in the 3, or is it 4 months I've had it ? :)

Overall I'm very pleased with the car and like it a lot and there are only really two significant niggles with it, however they are both quite significant.

1) The suspension is pretty hard with limited travel and this is not helped by the 215/50/17 wheel size the Tekna comes with. The ride was "OK" with the original Dunlop tyres (pretty good on small bumps, bumpy on large bumps, but never harsh) however the stiff sidewall XL rated CrossClimate+ have pushed the ride into "too hard and crashy" territory, and while the tyre change was the final straw I feel the wheel size and stiff limited travel suspension is the main culprit - it was relying too much on a "soft" tyre to get acceptable ride quality.

In some ways I wish I'd just got a cheaper Acenta with the 205/55/16 wheel size as not only are there a lot more tyres available in that size and much cheaper, the ride would have probably been significantly better as well. Before buying I didn't really have any idea what the ride quality was going to be like for a Tekna or an Acenta as I'd never driven a Leaf. However I didn't anticipate a problem with ride quality as a common refrain I would hear from Leaf drivers is that they "ride like a blancmange" - often used in a pejorative way by those who are obviously looking for hard taught German handling...

But I'm here to tell you that these people could not have been more wrong and have obviously not driven a Citroen before let alone a hydraulic one!!! :lol: The Leaf has what I would call stiff taught ride and handling, in fact it actually handles pretty darn well and rolls very little. But the ride is not soft in any way, certainly not with the wheels and tyres it has on it now.

So ride quality is a bit of a sore point with me at the moment. Of course there is nothing to stop me buying some Acenta wheels (and tyre pressure sensors grr) and putting the most comfortable riding summer tyres on it that I can find to use for 8 months of the year, but that's a lot of additional expense that I hadn't anticipated, so I'm on the fence at the moment.

2) The drivers seat is just not very comfortable and is still causing me problems as I try to find the right combination of padding/covers. No, it's nowhere near as bad as the hard, flat, narrow, zero bolstered seat in the Ion which is simply the worst seat I've ever sat in in any car in my life, (totally unusable without a large foam cushion, and even then causing me continuous back strain - one reason I sold the car!) but it has a major design flaw.

The backrest is actually pretty good - just the right amount of bolstering to stop you sliding in the corners, a little bit of lumbar support, can't really complain about the backrest. But the base is just idiotically designed. It's very narrow towards the hinge point, certainly narrower than my bum :lol: as it is trying to avoid two large plastic boxes. Also the side bolsters on the base are too vertical, too tall and pointy and too hard.

Essentially when I sit in the unadorned seat these side bolsters dig painfully into the sides of my bum and it is very unpleasant. If you're someone with a slightly narrower bum that can fit between the pointy bolsters you're probably fine and will find the seat perfectly comfortable. But for those of us with a wider bum it is just not tolerable. Bolsters should be much flatter, softer and wider so those of us who do spill onto the bolsters a bit :lol: don't find it uncomfortable. The bolsters in the Xantia leather seats are perfectly comfortable for me for example even though I'm well onto the bolsters.

In an effort to improve it I've tried a full seat cover but decided I didn't like the backrest being covered as that made the backrest less comfortable, now I've cut out a specially shaped piece of rubber Yoga mat to essentially "fill in" most of the middle part of the seat and raise it up a bit relative to the tips of the bolster, (and then a cover over the top of that) and this is much more comfortable however still not ideal.

The other problem the base has - like so many cars with manual seats - is no adjustment of the tilt angle of the base to tilt it back a bit. Unlike the Ion whose base was completely horizontal (eg, awful) it does have some natural back tilt, however it is not quite enough for me due to long legs and is not adjustable like it is on the Xanita. This means my legs are not supported by the front of the seat putting a lot of pressure on my spine and buttocks.

There is a seat height adjustment but again, like most cars with manual seats it is designed back to front - when you raise the seat it raises more at the rear than the front, causing the seat tilt to get even further away from where you need it to be. Having the seat base not tilt back enough leads to a problem called "submarining" where you essentially keep sliding forward in the seat slightly due to no thigh support and this is quite unpleasant as well.

So I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the seat. I can't understand how cars can be made with so little thought on something as important as the drivers seat. Am I just spoilt by the seats in the Xantia or do a lot of modern cars just have poorly thought out seats ? Are they designed with slightly smaller Asian bodies in mind and not tested properly on lanky Europeans ??? :twisted:

Other than the ride quality on the large wheels and CrossClimates and drivers seat design I can't really find much to complain about the car and lots to like.

Besides those two points it is actually a very comfortable and well equipped car certainly compared to the Ion. The heat pump heater is great, very efficient and quick, heated steering wheel and seats including the rear seats, it's well insulated and quiet at speed, the motor is smooth and near silent, it handles and corners well and the steering feels very nice (not notchy like the Ion) it could probably do with a bit more poke at higher speeds but hey, it is only 80kW in a 1535Kg car... it's not quick but its fast enough.

The charge timer and climate control timer are great - I plug it in at night and a timer defers charging until the small hours of the morning, then the climate timer comes on and defrosts the car automatically just in time for to leave for work. So we get into a fully charged, warm defrosted car every morning, no scraping, no waiting for the heater to produce heat, no fogging up with breath as we're trying to leave. I can also use the remote climate control from my phone to defrost the car before I leave work. Instead of dreading another winter in the Ion I feel like I'm fully armed and ready to take it on in comfort! :-D

Range has been pretty good - on the daily commute in summer it looks like it will manage about 115 miles, in the coldest weather we've had so far (about 4C) it is still managing around 100 miles although I'm sure it will drop a bit more in sub zero conditions if we make full use of the heater. This compares to about 55 miles in the Ion at best in summer and barely 35 in winter, driving carefully. So nearly 3x the range in winter by the looks of it.

The heater in the Ion reduced the range in near freezing conditions by around 40% - we haven't had 0C yet but so far the most range loss I've seen in cold weather at 4C is around 15%, which I put down to a combination of plugged-in preheating, (the initial warm up is not counted since its coming straight from the wall) heat pump efficiencies, (although even the resistance heater is more efficient than the one in the Ion) and much better insulation. As mentioned a while back I discovered the doors are all lined with thick carpet underfelt vs the hollow empty doors in the Ion.

As far as longer trips go - the 100 mile range is a little bit awkward in that the longer trips we want to do like to the beach can almost but not quite be comfortably made without a quick stop to charge for the return trip. (I'd probably make it without the charge but wouldn't want to chance it)

Fortunately it charges very fast. It will go from 30% to 80% in under 20 minutes on a rapid charger and will hold the full 45kW charge rate right up to 80% and still be doing about 30kW at 90%. So it charges way, way faster than the Ion did, in terms of miles added per minute charging, probably more than twice as fast. So it means longer return trips in the ~120 mile range are a piece of cake as you can stop once on the first half of the return trip for say 10 minutes and get yourself a comfortable 40+ mile buffer for the remainder of the trip on a 120 mile round trip.

Not quite as convenient as petrol or an EV with a 200+ mile range of course, (where you wouldn't need to stop to charge en-route at all) but if the Xantia were to go Ker splat tomorrow and we still had the Ion we'd be seriously restricted in where we could go and what we could do due to its small size, the very short range and slow charging it had, whereas the Leaf will do most longer trips the Xantia would albeit with some minor inconvenience planning for the occasional charging stop. (Partly made up for by the cost of the trip being dramatically less than petrol!)

The boot is slightly larger than the Xantia with the seats up so unless you're carting stuff around with the seats folded down (where it doesn't do so well) it can handle just as much luggage for trips as well. So if the Xantia did die we're in a pretty good situation now compared to what we were a few months ago and I doubt that I would even buy another combustion car to replace it as we simply don't make the long cross country trips that would warrant it - pretty much all our day trips top out at around 120 miles return which is easily doable with either charging at the half way destination or a quick top up on the way home.

Now that we have the Leaf I keep the Xantia not so much because I still need a Petrol car (I really don't) but because I like the Xantia as a car - ride, handling etc and enjoy driving it. Also it has a bit of nostalgia for me.

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42571
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1338

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by CitroJim »

Most interesting Simon :) Enjoyed reading those latest posts :)

I must say the climate timer is a brilliant idea and the prospect of a warm, clear and fully defrosted car on an icy morning is compelling...

It amazes me that neighbours with very high-end petrol and diesel cars don't seem to enjoy such benefits and it surprises me that such a device has taken so long to appear... Clearly the owner of a top of the range all bells and whistles huge and rather posh Volvo opposite does not have it...

I guess on a petrol or diesel car it's a bit harder to implement but still, with all the other leaps in technology on modern cars I remain surprised something like this that ha a direct bearing on both safety and comfort has been so neglected...

Surely these huge SUVs and the like could find room for enough battery to run a climate and de-icing system independently of the engine?

User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2019
Posts: 4461
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1268

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by mickthemaverick »

SWMBO has a fully integrated de-icing and warming system on her Celerio, it even gets the car out of the garage and turns it round ready for forward motion!!.....it's called Mick!! :-D

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42571
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1338

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by CitroJim »

mickthemaverick wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 17:24
SWMBO has a fully integrated de-icing and warming system on her Celerio, it even gets the car out of the garage and turns it round ready for forward motion!!.....it's called Mick!! :-D
You had me going for a moment there Mick 🤣

A neighbour recently was so delighted her husband de-iced and warmed her car she posted on Facebook how much she loved him 😃

It is a great expression of true love that's for sure!

User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2019
Posts: 4461
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1268

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by mickthemaverick »

CitroJim wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 17:29
It is a great expression of true love that's for sure!
Not sure about that! :-D More a case of not wanting to rebuild the driveway wall or paint the garage door!! :-D

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42571
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1338

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by CitroJim »

Oh Mick, you crack me up 🤣🤣

User avatar
Michel
Donor 2020
Posts: 1816
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
x 355

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Michel »

mickthemaverick wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 17:35
CitroJim wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 17:29
It is a great expression of true love that's for sure!
Not sure about that! :-D More a case of not wanting to rebuild the driveway wall or paint the garage door!! :-D
I do it on condition she brings me coffee and porridge in bed

User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2016
Posts: 3684
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 359

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Zelandeth »

CitroJim wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 16:37

I must say the climate timer is a brilliant idea and the prospect of a warm, clear and fully defrosted car on an icy morning is compelling...

It amazes me that neighbours with very high-end petrol and diesel cars don't seem to enjoy such benefits and it surprises me that such a device has taken so long to appear...
I have to admit that the fact the saloon heater in the van having its fancy pants controller which gives me timers, the ability to turn it on/off over the network and built in frost protection is handy.

On a cold dreary morning it's nice to be able to press one button on my phone then ten minutes later open the door to a nice toasty van.

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42571
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1338

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by CitroJim »

Michel wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 23:04
mickthemaverick wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 17:35
CitroJim wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 17:29
It is a great expression of true love that's for sure!
Not sure about that! :-D More a case of not wanting to rebuild the driveway wall or paint the garage door!! :-D
I do it on condition she brings me coffee and porridge in bed
That sounds lie a very fair deal to me Mike :D

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
11 Nov 2020, 16:37
Most interesting Simon :) Enjoyed reading those latest posts :)

I must say the climate timer is a brilliant idea and the prospect of a warm, clear and fully defrosted car on an icy morning is compelling...
Preheating/automatic defrost is a key benefit/perk of driving an EV in my opinion, so I was always a little disappointed that the Ion didn't have the ability - I knew that before buying the Ion of course as I did my research, but it was disappointing nevertheless so it was something I was really looking forward to with the Leaf.

When I pulled the Xantia out of its slumber last weekend for a long trip (one which we could have easily done in the Leaf, but I wanted to take the Xantia as it hadn't been driven for over 6 weeks and I don't want it to sit and rot) it was quite a chore to try to defrost it on a very cold and frosty Saturday morning, with about 15 minutes of idling to get enough heat to start clearing the windows and get it into a useable state. (I also discovered it had accrued a lot of moisture inside so the first half hour of driving had the heater on maximum with the windows slightly open to try to dry it out!)

In the two mornings we've had that have been around 0C with ice on the window the preheating on the Leaf has completely melted the ice on the window within about 3 minutes, and the cabin is up to 20C in about 15 minutes. All completely silent from the outside.

Interestingly the Leaf doesn't use the heat pump for preheating - it just runs the 3kW resistance heater. I think this is done for a couple of reasons - one is that it is silent from the outside.

If it used the heat pump for preheating there would be both the radiator fan and the heat pump itself making noise under the bonnet and while this is quieter than an idling combustion engine, on a still silent morning it can still be heard from a few metres away so potentially a source of annoyance for neighbours. Using only the resistance heater means the only source of noise is the cabin blower fan and that is not audible from the outside, so the preheating is silent like a Ninja and doesn't disturb the neighbours. :)

The other reason I think is that the resistance heater heats up much quicker than the heat pump (about 30 seconds vs a couple of minutes) and produces much hotter air for that rapid defrost action. The heat pump takes longer to start putting out heat and while it can produce moderately warm air at a high flow rate it can't produce really high temperature air as the condenser doesn't get as hot as a resistance heater element. So the heat pump is more suited for maintaining an already warm cabin but less suited to trying to do a quick defrost.

When the car is on the resistance heater and heat pump work together in some situations - for example when you first turn the car on (without preheating) the resistance heater and heat pump will both come on together - this means you get heat quickly as the resistance heater is hot very quickly and you also get hotter air, however as the heat demand drops back the resistance heater is progressively throttled back until it goes off completely just leaving the more efficient heat pump doing the work.
It amazes me that neighbours with very high-end petrol and diesel cars don't seem to enjoy such benefits and it surprises me that such a device has taken so long to appear... Clearly the owner of a top of the range all bells and whistles huge and rather posh Volvo opposite does not have it...

I guess on a petrol or diesel car it's a bit harder to implement but still, with all the other leaps in technology on modern cars I remain surprised something like this that ha a direct bearing on both safety and comfort has been so neglected...

Surely these huge SUVs and the like could find room for enough battery to run a climate and de-icing system independently of the engine?
I suspect the problem is that a 12v battery simply doesn't have the energy to do a proper preheat. To preheat a car at freezing temperatures you're looking at at least 3kW for 15 minutes - so 750Wh. 3kW from a 12v battery would be 250 amps - while a 12v battery can supply that for a few seconds for a starter motor it couldn't do it for 15 minutes, especially on a cold morning! Also a 60Ah 12v battery is only 720Wh, so tiny compared to the 30kWh traction battery in the Leaf, so just not feasble.

However it would be possible in a hybrid especially while plugged in, and I'm sure some plug in hybrids would support preheating.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

I think I mentioned it at the time but I bought my Leaf from a well known EV specialist "down south" who also traded in the Peugeot Ion.

Although the car did appear in the background of one of his videos soon after as one of several cars which had "just come in", to date, 3 months later, he has not listed the car publicly for sale on his website or done an individual walk around video for it as he usually does for most EV's on sale. He's put up maybe 15-20 for sale listings and videos since then for other cars.

I've been thinking about this recently as I wondered what did become of the Ion so out of curiosity I checked the Tax and Insurance state of the Ion and it has not been taxed since I transferred ownership on 20th July, nor is it currently insured. And while he might be able to drive it on his own "dealer coverage" insurance without individually insuring the car (?) I'm assuming that it would still have to be taxed to do so?

So I can only assume from this that he still has the car and it isn't even being driven, as it doesn't cost anything to Tax an EV. (Is there any way to check the V5C keeper online ?) I also notice on MOT check it says "Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 29 March 2017" which is when I bought the car, but no more recent logbook has been issued? Are sales to a dealer handled differently than a private sale?

I find it a little strange when there is a shortage of second hand EV's. He did say at the time that he may end up selling it "in the trade" rather than retail as he wasn't that happy with the drivers carpet being worn through and a couple of other small appearance niggles but I find it a bit strange.

On the other hand he hasn't publicly listed or sold any other i-Miev/Ion/C-Zero's recently either despite there being another Ion in the same video mine was seen in and he has been selling a lot of nearly new Peugeot Partner and Renault Kangoo EV's recently so maybe he's too busy selling higher value higher profit vehicles at the moment and will get to the older cheaper ones later...

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 13131
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1228

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I think trade licence covers the Tax/SORN situation (even though its Zero of course at the moment for EV's) pending sale. Trade plates should be used if the vehicle is used on the road for test drives, delivery etc
https://www.gov.uk/trade-licence-plates

Trade licence plates can save you time and money if you’re in the motor industry - you will not have to register and tax every vehicle temporarily in your possession.
You do not need to make a SORN on a vehicle if you're a motor trader or vehicle tester and all the following apply: it's only temporarily in your possession (until you sell it) it's being kept at your business premises. the registered keeper has notified DVLA that the vehicle has been sold or transferred to you."

Part of the trade licence application procedure requires that you also need to provide a copy of your Motor Trade Insurance Certificate, which must match the name on the application.


Regards Neil