Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[Stickyfinger]

Tell me this is it

[RichardW]

Must be.... looks in good nick!

[Stickyfinger]

almost new....

[white exec]

Looks like new! Hopefully the right bit.
Also confirms that it could be easily formed from a new straight length made up with the correct ends. None of the bends are particularly complicated or tight.

[Mandrake]

Hmm, is there any possibility that is a rear suspension arm brake line ? The bends don't look in the right places to me (unless you've straightened or changed some of the bends significantly...) and thats the only other coiled pipes I know about...

I'm half way through trying to remove the old one at the moment but I'm doing battle with rusted solid bolts on the wheel arch liner at the moment. Should be able to get some pics up later today.

[Stickyfinger]

Not a clue....all was pulled off the old Goblin in a hurry.....

[Stickyfinger]

David H has offered to assist with his flaring tool................

[DHallworth]

I've got a flaring tool and (I think) plenty of 3.5mm pipe and unions.

If you can get the original off I could probably make something similar. The bends are easy enough and for the coiled pipes I've done in the past I've found something a similar diameter and have wound it round them.

David.

[Mandrake]

Not a clue....all was pulled off the old Goblin in a hurry.....

Having compared photos unfortunately I think yours is a rear brake pipe! Even the number of coils does not match. Here is the old one sitting up the same way it does in the car:

Removing and refitting it isn't actually too bad as it's accessed all from underneath and through the wheel arch - the security valve can be seen and reached via the driveshaft passthrough hole and I was able to get a spanner on the union without too much trouble...

Here are a few more photos of how it fits in and the obstacles it has to go around:

I've got a flaring tool and (I think) plenty of 3.5mm pipe and unions.

If you can get the original off I could probably make something similar. The bends are easy enough and for the coiled pipes I've done in the past I've found something a similar diameter and have wound it round them.

David.

Much appreciated David, but..... the pipes are unfortunately 4.5mm not 3.5mm!

Does your tool also do 4.5mm pipe if I was to order some of the pipe Richard linked to earlier ? I presume if I'd be willing to cut the original pipe at the ends the unions could be removed and used on the new pipe ? The hexes on the original unions seem fine.

[RichardW]

I'm surprised that came off so easily!! I'm sure Sticky's is the right one, Simon, it's the other way up, and might not be quite the right shape, but it should be bendable to fit. Rear brake pipe is only 3.5mm, and is a completely different shape with lots more coils and a bracket riveted on next to the coil:

[Stickyfinger]

It did not look "bent"

I will measure the pipe today.....

[DHallworth]

I've got the 4.5mm formers for the flaring tool and I'm pretty sure I've got some 4.5mm pipe too, no idea how much though. You could reuse the old unions but I wouldn't bother, the new ones are a bit chunkier and don't round off like the Citroen's ones can do after a few years.

I'll have a look at what I've got later today. If you're particularly worried about the shape and the routing being perfect then the steel pipe would be better but a home made one could be made roughly the same and would do the job.

David.

[Mandrake]

I'm surprised that came off so easily!! I'm sure Sticky's is the right one, Simon, it's the other way up, and might not be quite the right shape, but it should be bendable to fit. Rear brake pipe is only 3.5mm, and is a completely different shape with lots more coils and a bracket riveted on next to the coil:

I think you're right that its not a brake pipe however unfortunately it's still not the right one. I went out and took another picture of mine from the same perspective as stickyfingers photo and it's clear that while the top run that goes to security valve looks roughly the same, everything else is different. The coils are wound in the opposite direction, there is a sharp bend on the end that goes to the pressure regulator that is not on mine, and the rectangular bends that avoid the gearbox housing are absent. Have a close look below especially at the bottom run and the coils themselves:

Stickyfingers:

Mine:

My conclusion is that it is the correct pipe for pressure regulator to security valve - just not for a V6 Auto! So as much as I want it to be the correct pipe it isn't. I can only assume it came off a different car and got mixed up with the parts from the green goblin as I can see no way it came off a V6 Auto as it wouldn't clear the valve block of the gearbox and the pipe is not entering the pressure regulator from the correct orientation.

I've got the 4.5mm formers for the flaring tool and I'm pretty sure I've got some 4.5mm pipe too, no idea how much though. You could reuse the old unions but I wouldn't bother, the new ones are a bit chunkier and don't round off like the Citroen's ones can do after a few years.

I'll have a look at what I've got later today. If you're particularly worried about the shape and the routing being perfect then the steel pipe would be better but a home made one could be made roughly the same and would do the job.

David.

Any chance I could borrow your flaring tool for a few days ? I'm happy to jump in the Ion and come over to collect it whenever it suits you and bring it back after I'm finished.

Rather than just trying to copy the old pipe absent the car and hope it fits well I think it would be easier to use the old one as a rough guide but fashion the new pipe right at the car so I can check it for fit on the car and tweak it as I go. That should give a very neat fit and be quite easy.

I do have a bit of experience with forming small copper pipes into smooth curves for plumbing etc so I shouldn't have any trouble doing it with the right tools.

The pipe length isn't much - I'd say it's under a metre coils included, but let me know if you don't have any 4.5mm pipe or unions and I'll order some online first...

One thing I'm wondering though is how suitable cuprinol pipe is in this application - the coils are clamped between the chassis of the car and the gearbox so must flex when the gearbox and engine tilt on the engine mounts. With worn engine mounts this could be quite a bit of movement.

A steel pipe can bend quite a bit without yielding and return to its original position without fatigue, (acting like a spring) however I'm a little bit worried that a soft, low yield cuprinol pipe might work harden and crack with constant flexing past its yield point with engine movement. I've actually seen a cuprinol replacement pipe used to a strut top that failed in exactly this way on my Dad's Xantia - it had been replaced by someone before he bought the car and after a few months it developed a crack in the pipe due to the slight movement of the strut top constantly bending the pipe slightly without the ability to spring back as steel does.

For softer pipe I'd be inclined to add an extra couple of coils of pipe to reduce the amount the pipe has to flex with engine movement - there is quite a bit of room there between gearbox and wheel arch liner for more coils or larger diameter coils etc.

[RichardW]

Agreed, it's not the same pipe.... found a candidate though - item 15 in this diag for an Activa...

4.5ml, but a reverse coil and a shorter pipe, and no kick up at the end.

Cunifer will work harden a bit eventually, but for the very small amount that coil will flex it won't worry you - my first one had a cunifer rear brake line for lots of miles, and the flex in that is much more than yours will ever see!

service.citroen says the length of the pipe is 1867mm so you will need more than you think....

[Skull]

Simon

XANTIA 2.1 TD (PAGE 7)

OR

ACTIVA (PAGE 1)

Good Luck seems to be my most common Xantia pipe failure