Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

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van ordinaire
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by van ordinaire »

Mandrake wrote: 28 Dec 2018, 12:06
van ordinaire wrote: 24 Dec 2018, 22:39 We'll just have to wait & see - as I now realise I ordered mine from the same place #-o
Well mine have arrived and I can confirm I have 4 bulbs! #-o

I think what I'll do given that they should be brighter than the originals is just fit all four to low and high beams and keep the original high beam bulbs (which don't get much use) as emergency spares and chuck away the still working low beam bulb on the basis that it's probably near the end of its life if the other low beam went. The new ones come in a nice plastic box so I should be able to use that to store the two old ones. :)


Well, if you've been following my blog, you'll know that (a) mine did too, (b) I've fitted one (c) why.

B-t-w, since then, quite by chance, I came across an historic thread of yours about - foglights! Fortunately AFTER I'd replaced the bulb in one of mine - otherwise I don't think I would've started.

This morning I came across a Latvian U-bend clip on adjusting foglights which was far more helpful than the handbook on how to remove the indicator (who would've ever thought the adjuster was down there - or it was so simple!) &, having in mind the suggestion that it also provides access to the foglight bulb holder, popped out the offside indicator to find it provides quite good access - so I've made a cheeky offer for some rather interesting yellow bulbs! Of course, I know I should get Osram "Fogbreakers" - but there's a limit to how much I can indulge myself at Christmas.

I like your plan for all the bulbs (but then, it's more or less what I would've done - & can't say I've ever experierenced old bulbs failing in storage.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Last weekend I decided to fit all four bulbs, and because the left hand headlight glass was always half covered in condensation on the inside I thought I should remove the whole headlight, clean and reseal it.

It turns out the foam rubber gasket was a little bit damaged/cracked at the top and it probably could have done with a new gasket (good luck getting one!) so I used the silicone grease I referred to earlier on the gasket to help seal it a bit better. The bulb access hatch at the rear also has a similar foam rubber gasket so I put a little grease on that as well. As far as I can see, with the access hatch on the rear closed the entire headlight is supposed to be airtight!

While it was apart I gave the glass a thorough clean and dry inside and out, and although the right hand headlight wasn't fogging inside I decided to disassemble and thoroughly clean and reseal that one as well, along with the plastic grill with the chevron on it, all of which were pretty mucky and covered in verdigris!

I completed and refitted the left hand headlight before starting on the right hand one so I could compare the brightness of the new and old bulbs - I couldn't see any difference against the garage door! That's not to say that there wouldn't have been a difference on the road of course. So I don't know whether these new bulbs are "150% brighter" or not! Maybe the car already had similar bulbs in it. I don't know.

Got it all back together and was satisfied with my work - headlights and grill looked spotlessly clean, presumably the headlights are now properly sealed, and four new bulbs. What could go wrong ? Later that night after it had cooled down a bit I was greeted with this:
IMG_1894.JPG
IMG_1893.JPG
Both headlights severely fogged inside including the one that didn't have any prior fogging problems. #-o

I'm not sure whether it was a result of residual moisture from washing the headlight glasses (I did dry them very thoroughly including with a hair dryer!) or because I was working in humid conditions. At the time I had the headlights apart the weather was 10C at about 90% relative humidity, the ground was wet and it was heading towards dusk by the time I was finishing. In other words there was a lot of moisture around, so I realised I'd probably trapped moist air inside the headlights and as soon as they cooled down it condensed on the glass and had no way to escape. Bugger! :evil:

I figured that I could pop open the bulb access hatches at the rear and leave them open for a couple of days to let the air inside equalise with ambient, unfortunately the weather stayed stubbornly at 8-10C, 80-90% humidity and wet so it had no effect, nor did running the headlights for a while. Drat.

What I needed was some cold dry air with a very low dew point. Last night I noticed the weather report was for -3C overnight which would result in a dewpoint of -3C or lower, and the surroundings were very dry. Both headlights were still fogged so I decided to open the rear access hatches again over night during the very cold dry night air.

Success! :-D Over night it got down to -4C with 90% humidity so about -5C dew point. In the morning it was still -3C but the headlights were completely clear of condensation or fog inside. I then closed the rear hatches to seal them back up again.

In theory the air now trapped inside the headlights (if they are indeed airtight now) is very dry with a dew point of -5C, meaning they shouldn't be able fog unless the ambient temperature went down to -5C or lower, versus them probably having air with a dew point of about +8C the first time I sealed them up. In fact I'm not even sure it's possible for liquid condensation to form if the dew point of the trapped air is well below 0C ?

Hopefully that is the end of it!! Moral of the story - if headlights are air tight its no good sealing them up during wet, humid weather or you will trap a lot of moisture inside them no matter how hard you try to "dry" them out! :roll:
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Spoke too soon, temperature has dropped to 1.5C so far tonight and the left hand headlight has condensation in the bottom left corner again! #-o

None in the right hand headlight. So I can only assume that the gasket around the glass is not sealing properly on the left hand headlight and moisture has got in again. Ho hum...
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by white exec »

Chuck in one of those little sachets of silica gel . . .
I think I read somewhere that the DS headlights were equipped with vented warm air?
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myglaren
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by myglaren »

I wonder if flushing them out with the exhaust from a warmed up vacuum cleaner, followed by silicagel, would be any help.

Not if the seal is breached of course.
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Michel
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Michel »

I believe part of the issue is that air can’t get in. Had the same issue with Ford Puma tail lights. Owners club fix was to drill a very small hole in the top side of the lamp housing. Worked for me on 2 Pumas
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Zelandeth
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Zelandeth »

If it were me I'd drill a small hole in the covers low down. That way the lights can breathe.

You're always going to get it pulling in air from outside when the unit cools down, making it so the moisture can get back out again is a lot easier than trying to get them hermetically sealed.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Michel wrote: 03 Jan 2019, 01:52 I believe part of the issue is that air can’t get in. Had the same issue with Ford Puma tail lights. Owners club fix was to drill a very small hole in the top side of the lamp housing. Worked for me on 2 Pumas

Easiest place to drill a hole would be in the plastic access hatch on the rear which can be removed with the lights in situ, and also be less likely to pick up road dust than a hole in the bottom of the main housing. Hmmm.....

No condensation on the right hand side light. But is the left hand one the leaky one or the right hand one ? If the left one is getting moisture because it's leaking, will drilling another hole really help matters ? Then I just have two leaks! :lol:
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by white exec »

I think that headlight units should be able to breathe, rather than be pretty-much sealed. The heat from the bulbs can then have a drying effect on any moisture in there. Front gasket needs to be a good seal, though, to prevent weather getting it.
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

After 2 years and 22k miles of daily commuting and doing 90% of all our driving the Ion has hit 50k miles and 8 years old:
50k.JPG
Work done during ownership, much of which was probably due before I bought the car, as is usually the case with second hand cars:

* New front discs and pads - the old pads had plenty of thickness left but the discs were badly corroded and slightly warped due to exploding rust. Same as the Xantia! Can't seem to keep these discs rust free and they always give that rusty grinding sound first thing in the morning for a couple of miles of use in anything other than dry weather. Not sure if it's regenerative braking reducing friction brake use so much that the surface rust can accumulate, or whether Apec discs just have poor corrosion resistance. Might try different brand discs next time, if there is a next time.

* Replaced the front brake caliper guide pins - the original ones were worn enough to cause the calipers to rattle noisily on rough surfaces. Also fitted the optional anti-rattle shims and ditched the lower rubber bush caliper pins for all metal ones. No more rattles from the brakes. :)

* Replaced drop-links in search of a clunk over certain potholes - didn't make any difference so I suspect the clunk is from a track rod end!

* Rear left drum brake was sticking on and/or being grabby in wet/cold weather, did a clean and service of the drums a year ago and seems mostly OK now, however in cold wet conditions the rear brakes are still a little bit grabby when coming to a stop. Not sure what the solution is there - it's not bad enough to warrant more effort on it at the moment, and the drum brake linings have nearly new thickness left. This just reaffirms my dislike of drum brakes!

* Replaced a broken rear left seat tilting handle where the hole had split/stripped.

* Replaced 12v battery recently which was almost dead - despite this the car still functioned normally.

* One set of tyres the first year I had the car - which still have about 5mm of tread left. Unfortunately the rear left has been replaced twice more since then due to un-repairable punctures! #-o

* Traction battery has degraded about 10% in the 2 years and 22k miles I've had the car, which is about 3x faster than expected. (Expected would have been about 3% over this mileage) This seems to be down to 3 specific cells that are much "weaker" than the other 85 cells, and the usable capacity is limited by the weakest link in the chain when you have a series string of cells. Other Ion's of the same mileage as mine generally show significantly greater usable capacity remaining so I suspect it is a case of bad luck and a couple of defective cells rather than normal degradation.

I am keeping an eye on these weak cells and considering my options to see whether the effort replacing those three cells would be worth it or not. The cells are only available on the second hand market from wrecks and it is difficult to find cells with equal or better remaining capacity than the cells I already have in the car. A dutch guy collects and strips EV batteries packs and had some recently and was offering four cells for £200 delivered, however when he tested them they had less remaining capacity than the cells already in the car - so were of no use to me. To be useful they would need to have at least as much capacity as the worst cells that were not being replaced.

The car still drives fine but I think I've lost about 3 miles of range, and rapid charging speed is a little slower due to higher cell resistance, most likely. As the range is already very marginal in winter for my daily commute I think I'll keep it two more years until its loan is paid off then see if I can move it on and replace it with an EV with a bit more range - not sure what yet though! EV second hand prices have actually gone up in the last two years - I could sell it today for £1000 more than I bought it. :shock: However the EV's that I would potentially replace it with have all likewise gone up as well, pushing them tantalisingly out of my reach at the moment.

All in all, it's been a good little car and a toe dipped into EV land, I've learnt a lot about EV's, and now know what to look for and what to avoid etc... and most of the work I've done to it has been "elective" work rather than work that it absolutely needed, however I am finding the range just a bit too tight in the winter and the drivers seat just a bit too uncomfortable for the 35 miles a day I do despite trying various cushions and padding etc... I suspect also as Joshua gets a bit bigger (coming up on 3 soon) and starts wanting his pals ferried around in the car with him that we will need a bigger car anyway! By that time the Xantia will be banned from the roads due to low emissions zones so it won't be around anymore.
Last edited by Mandrake on 14 Feb 2019, 11:10, edited 1 time in total.
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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Skull
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Skull »

Simon nice update/summary I was almost expecting a 'for sale' at the end :wink:

I imagine you must be close to a break-even point with the Ion with the money saved on fuel and road tax and then hopefully a year or 2 of free motoring before selling on?

The main reason I haven't looked any further at EV is that some days our commute is only 3 miles each-way and the initial cost of purchasing a budget EV even second hand like you did would take a lot of those trips to get to a break-even point.
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Skull wrote: 14 Feb 2019, 11:09 Simon nice update/summary I was almost expecting a 'for sale' at the end :wink:
Heh. Unless I have to I won't be selling it until the loan is paid back, I'm 2 years in on a 4 year loan so I think the car will last out the remaining two year without too much difficulty. By then it will be at about 74k miles. The only question mark is how much further battery degradation there will be if I have a couple of iffy cells, and whether I'll be forced to try to replace them to keep a usable range or just shift the car on sooner than planned, lower range included.

Summer range is fine - I can get home from my 35 mile commute with 20 miles left easy, and that includes half of that being motorway. But in winter below 0C I almost can't make it without a quick top up on the way home, or turning the heater off for the last 10 miles, which is very unpleasant even with heated seat covers...

Rather fortuitously a dual Instavolt rapid charger unit has popped up between my first and second winters with the car at a gull service station precisely on my route home exactly where I need it with no diversion needed to get to it. So on sub zero winter day or days where I have got caught up in traffic jams, diversions etc where I probably wouldn't make it home I make a judgement call when I get to this service station whether I need to do a 10 minute top up or not - if I have 4 bars or more left I don't stop, if I have 3 bars or less or I'm needing to run extra errands on the way home I stop for 10 minutes of rapid charge - which adds about another 20 miles of winter range.

Not ideal, but it's a get out of jail free card that makes what could have been an impossible trip in bad weather/road conditions one where I can use the heater freely and just takes 10 minutes longer. Obviously for my next EV I would want a significant boost in range so that I can do a winter commute with plenty of range left over and no need to drive conservatively or worry about range, traffic snarl ups etc. And a more comfortable seat! :twisted:
I imagine you must be close to a break-even point with the Ion with the money saved on fuel and road tax and then hopefully a year or 2 of free motoring before selling on?
The main reason I haven't looked any further at EV is that some days our commute is only 3 miles each-way and the initial cost of purchasing a budget EV even second hand like you did would take a lot of those trips to get to a break-even point.

In actual fact it's saving us money on a monthly basis, even while we're still paying it off, let alone after it is paid off. :) However this is because we have just the right length of commute (35 miles) that is within the range of the car, but enough mileage a month that the petrol savings add up.

Also our previous commutes were bus journey for Sara, some driving (in the Xantia) and then a train journey for me, with both train and bus monthly tickets being very expensive. We now car pool together in the car, and while I have to pay £70 a month in parking, when you add up the costs of our old commute with the costs of the new commute, including paying the loan for the car, repairs etc, we're saving something like £50-100 a month.

However I bought the Ion second hand for a steal, and still have the Xantia (for now!) as a second car for load hauling and long trips. If I had only the Ion things would be pretty inconvenient at times with long trips basically impossible.

New EV's are still way too expensive so you won't get a lower TCO with a new EV today vs a new ICE unless you do astronomical mileage. As the price differential comes down and eventually reverses that will change of course. The only way to "save" money with an EV today is to buy 2nd hand, buy cheap, and have just the right use case for it. For a lot of people this doesn't add up at the moment even as a second car.
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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Skull
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Skull »

Simon

From what you've said there it sounds like you've made the right call with your EV you are an ideal candidate ....and you chose wisely :mrgreen:
On my 4th Citroën Xantia (X2 HDi (110))
Citroën sAXo Memphis Mk II
Gone
Xantia x3 (2.0i TCT Activa)(2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
Xsara HDi VTR Coupe / Saxo 1.1i / BX 1.9 d / 4 x AX's (1.4D /1.5D)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon) 405 1.9 D Estate 306 1.9 XTDT Hatch
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by Mandrake »

Had a bit of an oopsie with the Ion last night that could be anywhere between an approx £200 repair and a write-off. :(

Without going into a lot of detail I drove into an unmarked traffic island in the rain and dark while turning at a junction. I say unmarked, because on Google street view (picture below) it shows a warning arrow post as being present there, but my Dashcam recording will happily confirm that the warning arrow/post is long gone before I got there! :evil:
Missing warning sign.png
The end of the traffic island is double curb height and was directly in my A-pillar blind spot, so in the dark and rain I didn't have a chance of seeing it when I'm busy scanning the horizon for oncoming cars. It hit pretty hard (albeit at only 10mph) then went right over the top. I pulled over and checked underneath, the only visible damage is the tow hook in the middle of the suspension sub chassis just below the radiator is flattened and there is also a dent/scuff mark in the same chassis rail to the left of the tow hook.

Unfortunately based on a quick fingers in the wheel arch test it seems to have pushed the front left wheel back by about half a finger and the left wheel is now towing out slightly. As a result the steering wheel is now significantly out of centre to drive straight ahead and the steering feels a bit heavier - presumably because the car is supposed to have 0-6mm toe in, not toe out! #-o

I was still able to drive it home after checking there was no leaking coolant, damaged wires or battery pack etc. In fact apart from the small steering wheel offset and slightly heavier steering it feels absolutely fine to drive. I think I've been very lucky it didn't rip the guts out of the battery pack or bash the bottom of the motor or gearbox which does hang down below the level of the battery pack at the rear. I think after the initial impact on the chassis rail the wheel has climbed the curb and the rest of the car has passed over the obstacle without touching.

Unfortunately at this point I don't know if the wheel tracking/position problem is a bent lower wishbone arm (with the chassis rail scuff being visual damage only) or whether the actual chassis rail itself which has been impacted is bent, and that will decide what happens to the car.

A new lower control arm is £136 and includes bushes and bottom ball-joint all as one unit, so plus a bit of labour (I'm not going to do it myself, since the tracking will need doing as well) not too eye watering, and less or similar to my excess.

However if the sub chassis is bent then it's much more expensive. The chassis is available and mounts up from underneath (no engine at the front remember, just ancillaries and suspension) but at £369 plus presumably considerable labour and fiddling around to fit you're probably pushing £500-600 so into the realm of insurance claims. :(

Anyway, I'm taking it in to my local friendly garage who normally do my MOT's for a proper on ramp inspection and measurement tomorrow to see what the verdict is. If it's just a wishbone arm I'll order that or get them to order it and then have them fit it for me and set the tracking. If it's the chassis then I think I'm going to have to claim on insurance! :cry:

To complicate matters the MOT is due by 16 March which is now really close. In fact I was on the verge of phoning up to book an MOT just a day or two after this incident occurred. #-o

A work college has suggested that it might be worth me pursuing the council for a claim based on the fact that the safety marker was completely absent. I'm not keen to post the Dashcam footage publicly but needless to say that even the camera struggled to see the dark, wet, un-marked raised section of traffic island from its high central vantage point that doesn't suffer from A-pillar blind spots. It's my opinion that had the safety marker still been there I would have clearly seen and avoided the island. If you can claim for damage from potholes, why not damage from missing safety signs ?

Edit: Just thought to review and save my Dashcam footage from earlier in the day when it was still light when I first arrived at the location - I drove past the concrete island and there lying on the ground about 20 metres further up the road was the missing marker!! :evil: Not only that, the safety marker for the opposite stretch of road which is present on Google street view is also missing, presumably run over by someone. Not happy. [-X
Missing warning sign 4.jpg
Last edited by Mandrake on 20 Feb 2019, 17:24, edited 1 time in total.
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Unread post by myglaren »

Worth trying a claim Simon - worst they can do is refute it.