Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

daviemck2006 wrote:
19 Aug 2017, 16:55
On a small commuter/city car like yours or the 107 they are fine, but I wouldn't put them on the 407 coupe. I'm not really anticipating using the 407 much in poor weather. I expect Gabriel will get that job and no idea what she is wearing

Are you speaking specifically about not using Quatrac 5's on a 407, or just All Season tyres in general, due to them being a compromise ?

By the way I forgot to mention earlier but what a joy it was to change the wheels on a car that actually has studs and cap nuts instead of the modern bloody obsession with awkward to fit and align wheel bolts! [-X :twisted: I didn't think any cars still used wheel studs...

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Zelandeth
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Zelandeth »

Falkens on Gabriel, Davie. Can't remember which range from, but they handled masses of standing water and slush on the M6 without any drama. Changed as a full set shortly after I got the car as it was wearing four different tyres when I got it.

You may find the tyres take a while to wear in on the Ion, when I had the new tyres fitted to the 107 it was a good week or so before they really seemed to develop any bite. Before that they were very prone to as you say behaving in a squirrelly way on corners and the ABS tending to get over excited under even moderate braking.

After a couple of weeks use though they got a lot better. Now starting to perish and have got noticeably slippery in wet weather so doomed for the bin soon. Seems that actually wearing tyres out these days is a rarity!

I hate run flats with a passion. The sidewall has to be so stiff that the ride is horrendously compromised - especially given the tendency for them to be used on absurdly large wheel sizes. Go take a spin in a modern Mini Cooper (which comes with them as standard I think) with and without run flats on...the difference is staggering We only encountered them a couple of times at the garage, but we also found them an absolute swine to balance - our theory was that it was due to all the extra weight in the sidewall. Not to mention the cost of the things to start with!

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daviemck2006
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by daviemck2006 »

Just all season in general on it. The uniroyal rain expert on it are fantastic in the dry and wet, and at 235 section wide on a powerful auto I would rather have narrower tyres and manual if there is snow.

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daviemck2006
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by daviemck2006 »

I'm happy enough to hear Gabriel has Falkens. I put 4 New tyres into lilpug on her new wheels and got falkens for it. They have good ratings for grip and fuel. Plus my tyre man rates them, his car has them, as does his mum's and his dad's can. That usually says they are good!

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

Zelandeth wrote:
19 Aug 2017, 19:24
You may find the tyres take a while to wear in on the Ion, when I had the new tyres fitted to the 107 it was a good week or so before they really seemed to develop any bite. Before that they were very prone to as you say behaving in a squirrelly way on corners and the ABS tending to get over excited under even moderate braking.

After a couple of weeks use though they got a lot better.
Yes I did notice hard braking didn't seem as effective as before, but I didn't hear any ABS action to suggest locking up so I assumed it was a build up of surface rust on the front discs as the car hasn't been driven for several days and the front brakes were making a definite surface rust scraping noise when I first set off after fitting the tyres.

Another thing I thought might be causing the grip prblem is that these tyres have an absolutely insane number of tall little spikes sticking out of the tread, which I assume are injection moulding points ?
IMG_9958.JPG
All brand new tyres have some of these spikes but usually only towards the edge of the tyre, not all over the main tread as well!

Perhaps these will cause reduced grip on smooth seal until they are worn down, as they may prevent proper contact with the main tread blocks. I'd say it will take a week or so of use before they wear off.
I hate run flats with a passion. The sidewall has to be so stiff that the ride is horrendously compromised - especially given the tendency for them to be used on absurdly large wheel sizes. Go take a spin in a modern Mini Cooper (which comes with them as standard I think) with and without run flats on...the difference is staggering We only encountered them a couple of times at the garage, but we also found them an absolute swine to balance - our theory was that it was due to all the extra weight in the sidewall. Not to mention the cost of the things to start with!
Great, just what we need - tyres that provide an even harder ride than the already terrible ride on most low profile tyres! #-o No thanks.

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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by white exec »

Take a beard trimmer to those little spikes! 8-)

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Stickyfinger »

or drive like a nutter for 5 miles :)

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Stickyfinger wrote:
19 Aug 2017, 22:14
or drive like a nutter for 5 miles :)

Like you do on Track Days? :D How are the gravel traps, by the way?

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Stickyfinger »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
19 Aug 2017, 22:51
Stickyfinger wrote:
19 Aug 2017, 22:14
or drive like a nutter for 5 miles :)

Like you do on Track Days? :D How are the gravel traps, by the way?


a bit gritty

but then again I know the limit.....I do not like surprises

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

white exec wrote:
19 Aug 2017, 20:45
Take a beard trimmer to those little spikes! 8-)

With 40 miles a day I'm sure they'll be worn away within a week. :) It might also be that brand new smooth shiny rubber doesn't grip as well as rubber that has a rough finish to it after being worn in for a bit, a bit like brand new discs and pads don't work very well. I'll give it a few days and see how they feel on my familiar route after that.

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CitroJim
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by CitroJim »

I always like to see how long I can keep those little spikes - both on car and bike tyres!

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

Ok The Vredesteins have done a few miles now (about 150) and although they still have the little spikes that Jim seems to love so much :-D they seem to have settled down now and are gripping more like I would expect.

No obvious wheel spinning on the inside tyre when accelerating on a tight bend as it was initially, and grip seems pretty decent overall for what is essentially a modified winter tyre operating in "summer". However I do notice that the tyre is very "soft" compared to the previous summer pair, primarily in the sidewalls. I guess that is to be expected however I'm thinking that I might need to up the pressure a bit, at least while they are being used in warm weather.

It does seem to bounce a bit on the tyre at the rear at the standard 36 psi, also I notice on smooth seal at low speeds if I hit the go pedal there is a rushing noise from the back that sounds like tyre tread deformation from an under-inflated tyre which goes away when I ease off the power - never heard anything like on the previous tyres. I can notice on cornering that the rear moves a wee bit as well, probably also due to sidewall flex. So what do people think about raising the pressure to say 38 psi in the warmer weather to stiffen the sidewalls a little bit ?

Is the car manufacturers recommended pressure (of 36 front and rear) even valid when switching to radically different tyres like All Seasons, or does it take a little bit of trial and error to find an optimal pressure for them ? I've never used All Seasons or winter tyres before so I don't have any prior experience of whether tyre pressures need to be altered or whether the really "soft" sidewall is a characteristic that you just live with with these kind of tyres.

Regarding the ESC giving false alerts - that seems to have stopped now that they are gripping better, however I have noticed the occasional odd behaviour on the cars regenerative braking. It has a needle on the dash that shows power use and regenerative braking, a few times now I have noticed that while I'm at say 30mph going down a hill with my foot mostly off the pedal, the regeneration indicator which would normally be steady was fluctuating up and down a bit, (without me moving the pedal) as if it was trying to vary the braking.

It occurred to me that the mismatch between front and rear tyre rolling radius (with the rear tyres being too big compared to front) would make it think the rear wheels were turning too slowly during regenerative braking, and that as a result it might ease off the regeneration in an attempt to prevent "impending lockup" of the rear wheels, which is really just the rear wheels turning a bit slower than normal.

I've also noticed that full blown emergency braking doesn't seem as good as it used to be, even though the tyres aren't locking or skidding in any way, nor does the ABS seem to be activating.... it just seems to be lacking a little in bite under hard braking. I then realised that perhaps the speed mismatch is causing the car to disable regenerative braking under hard braking leaving only the drums acting on the rear wheels instead of drums+motor regeneration.

Normally you would have discs at the front and drums+regeneration at the rear, and I suspect the drums on their own without regeneration aren't very powerful and can't make the most of the wider (than the front) rear tyres.

Hopefully if this is what's happening replacing the front wheels with the same make of tyre and increased rolling radius will solve the problem. [-o<

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by elma »

Winter tyres are usually softer in the walls. They often carry a speed rating of t for this reason and a few others.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

elma wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 15:49
Winter tyres are usually softer in the walls. They often carry a speed rating of t for this reason and a few others.

Yes these are T rated when I think the original summers are V. (Which is pretty ludicrous when the car is speed limited to 80mph!)

I realise they'll have softer sidewalls, but I'm wondering whether it's OK or desirable to up the pressure a wee bit when they are being used in warmer weather as the amount of tread deformation at the contact point does seem to be a bit excessive to me, at least for summer conditions.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by elma »

I would, you've changed the tyre spec quite a bit so the recommended pressures won't necessarily be correct.

Peugeot may have chosen the v rated tyres for the load rating that comes with them rather than the speed rating. Considering you can feel the deformation I think this is probable. There's a noticeable difference in stiffness between the walls of t,h and v rated tyres.