Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

So this little bugger failed on Saturday. Anyone want to guess what it is and for extra points what it is out of ? :)
Photo 18-07-2017, 9 46 35 am.jpg
A new one should be arriving today...

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

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So I dropped the Peugeot Ion into the dealers this morning until tomorrow night for its rather pricey yearly "service". Instead of the original eye watering quote of £381 that they gave me in March for the "major" (even year) service that is due this year they're "only" going to charge £258 including a courtesy car. [-X :lol:

I've ranted about this already, especially given that the yearly service for a Leaf is a LOT cheaper, suffice to say the only reason I'm taking it for this service (and next years cheaper one) is to maintain the 8 year battery warranty. I don't think the battery is going to give me any trouble in the next few years but I'd be a mug to throw away the remaining 2 years of battery warranty by not sticking to the remainder of their service schedule. :roll:

Anyway what this post is really about is the courtesy car - a nearly new (5k miles) Peugeot 208 with the 3 cylinder 1.2 VTi petrol engine and manual gearbox. In summary, what a turd!!! :twisted:
Photo 18-07-2017, 9 20 44 am.jpg
Granted its been 7 years since I last drove a manual, or a small (under 2 litre) petrol for that matter, but my god, what a horrible driving experience! :shock: I was genuinely shocked at how awful it is to drive, especially for a brand new car. The car itself is OK in general I suppose - the interior is nice enough for a small car, steering wheel and seating is nice and comfortable, space is OK but apart from the significantly bigger boot the interior space for passengers is really not much better than the tiny Ion, just a bit wider. I still had to put the front passenger seat well forward to get Joshua's forward facing car seat in, just like I do in the Ion.

The ride is quite harsh and unpleasant and to my surprise the Ion which I hitherto considered to be a fairly hard, poor ride, (compared to a Xantia anyway :) ) rides much smoother than the 208! You really do feel a lot of road rumble and noise from the road surface in the 208, while you do not on the Ion. The Ion does bounce quite a bit on large bumps but it is otherwise a very decent ride compared to the 208.

Where the 208 really fell down though is the engine and gearbox - terrible! :shock: I looked up the specs of the 1.2 VTi and it's a 3 cylinder petrol supposedly with 82bhp, and a leisurely 14 seconds 0-62. The first thing I noticed is that the bite point of the clutch is right at the top of the pedal travel - in a car that has only done 5k! Eh ? :shock: Surely that can't be right ? Or do the courtesy cars get flogged so badly that the clutch is buggered by 5k ? I certainly can't figure it out. With the clutch biting so high it was near on impossible to perform any kind of smooth gear change, so every takeoff began with a lurch.

Next up was the engine - what a turd. Now granted, I'm used to driving a Xantia V6 with 194bhp, and a Peugeot Ion which whilst having only 66bhp, has a very healthy torque and instant throttle response, however I don't think I've ever driven a more gutless lacklustre engine in my life!

The engine has no torque on take off so you really have to ride the clutch a lot to get moving at all, (with lots of typical 3 cylinder vibration and noise) you get a bit of responsiveness from about 2000-3000rpm then above that...... nothing but noise when you push the throttle... :roll: It really is that bad. The gearing is very low such that in 5th its doing 3000rpm at 60mph, if you put your foot down in 5th at 60mph nothing happens except it makes an induction boom. So you change down to 4th at about 4000rpm and put your foot down at 60mph, and nothing happens! Boom and almost no acceleration. So you chuck it into 3rd at 60mph at about 5000rpm and you can actually almost pass someone at a very leisurely pace. Absolutely dreadful performance. [-X

Compared to this the 66BHP Ion is a little speed demon. :rofl2: It would literally leave this 1.2 208 in the dust, even in 50-70 acceleration. In 20-40 acceleration it would completely destroy it. (In fact I think the 20-40 time is pretty comparable to the Xanita as that is around it's peak torque) Official 0-60 time of the Ion is an even slower 15.9 seconds but everyone who has tested one (including me) finds that they do 0-60 in about 11.5 - 12 seconds, so the 15.9 second figure might be based on winter performance where in sub zero conditions the battery output is reduced. But in summer it easily does better than 12 seconds.

Oh but you're used to a 3 litre V6 I hear you say - well, yes, however I have owned and driven many low powered cars before... My first car was a 55bhp 1129cc GS - which is considerably more gutless and less torquey than the 1220cc, and yet it felt much better than this in 1st-3rd. This 208 engine has absolutely nothing above 3000rpm, almost like an old fashioned NA Diesel.

I also owned a 993cc 3 cylinder 1984 Daihatsu Charade Turbo for a few years - which was only about 65bhp, and it would have cleaned the floor with the 208 - it was a little pocket rocket, and whilst a bit noisy in that typical 3 cylinder way under 2000 rpm was a fantastic revver and a lot of fun to drive when you wound it up through the gears with lots of power right up to 6000rpm.

More recently, around 2010 I drove a Nissan Micra as a hire car a couple of times in the UK - it would have been a K12, (2005-2010 model) with either a 1.2 or 1.4 litre petrol engine, and had a manual gearbox. According to specs those are 80 or 88bhp respectively, so very comparable to the 208 on paper. I remember finding the performance of the Micra very nippy and responsive, and good even at motorway speeds and could easily have seen myself driving one. By comparison this 208 feels like a bloated gutless turd.

So what do you get for driving a car that is so awfully gutless to drive that it's not even capable of motorway overtaking ? You get about 50-60MPG. I managed an average of 50MPG on my trip home on the motorway. Well guess what - my Ion does the equivalent of 160MPG based on petrol and electricity costs, has infinitely better torque and responsiveness, has better acceleration at motorway speeds let alone at slower city speeds where it is very nippy, is exceptionally smooth and effortless to drive and is genuinely a MUCH nicer car to drive than this 1.2 208. It really does put the Ion into better context for me. :)

And it REALLY puts the Xantia into perspective - compared to the 208 it is unbelievably fast and powerful and has a ride that is in a completely different league. :-D

Has anyone else driven a 1.2 litre 208 and found it a complete turd ? Is this the kind of car people buy these days all in the name of fuel economy ? Do people just not care about the driving experience ? If Nissan can get the 1.2 litre petrol class right why can't Peugeot ? Words can't really describe just how much of a let down driving this car was. :?

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by RichardW »

Mandrake wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 09:55
So this little bugger failed on Saturday. Anyone want to guess what it is and for extra points what it is out of ? :)

Photo 18-07-2017, 9 46 35 am.jpg

A new one should be arriving today...

Image


Door lock or water solenoid out of a washing machine? Hotpoint...

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Zelandeth
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Zelandeth »

Sadly I think you've come across a growing trend these days...manufacturers are so paranoid about economy and CO2 figures that they're using tiny engines, and even then mapping them in a very conservative manner - even more so in the last year or so I reckon as people are looking so much closer at the numbers.

Ford seem to have been able to get decent power from their 1.0 EcoBoost engine, but I've no experience with any of the other small turbo lumps that are doing the rounds.

The 208 with the 1.6 BlueHDi engine goes like a bat out of hell, and rides okay - reckon the extra weight probably helps there.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by RichardW »

The Ecoboost engine is gaining a reputation for destroying itself at about 50k though....

We had a 95PS 308 HDi on hire on holiday - it never really felt lacking (but then I wasn't caning it). The PSA 1.3 T Puretech engine (135PS?) is supposed to be pretty good - but like all these things, I've no doubt it will drink if worked hard!

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

Zelandeth wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 12:24
Sadly I think you've come across a growing trend these days...manufacturers are so paranoid about economy and CO2 figures that they're using tiny engines, and even then mapping them in a very conservative manner - even more so in the last year or so I reckon as people are looking so much closer at the numbers.
There's conservative and then there's gutless. It's so bad that I'm actually wondering if the car has a "valet mode" that cuts the performance on purpose ? That's what it feels like. Initial throttle application is responsive but then from 30-100% throttle outside of 2000-3000 there is just nothing in the way of acceleration, even in lower gears. Which makes this review totally hillarious, did they even drive the same car as me ? :lol:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/peugeot/20 ... eot-208-12
But this is the first time we’ve tried the 1.2 VTi three-cylinder petrol model on UK roads. It has 82bhp, which is good enough for a 0-62mph time of 14 seconds. The engine will be just enough for most people’s needs, with enough power to mix with the big boys on the motorway.

The engine has other benefits, too. Not only does it sound fantastic, right up to the red line, but with economy of 62.7mpg and CO2 emissions of 104g/km the Peugeot should prove incredibly cheap to run, too.
They have GOT to be kidding. :rofl2:

Who writes this kind of claptrap ? :roll: It sounds like a nasty little revvy 3 cylinder with lots of noise and vibration and no power, it does not sound fantastic in any way shape or form and it can only just keep up with the flow on a 70mph motorway, any kind of fancy overtaking is completely off the table. Unless this particular car is faulty or has been restricted somehow, this is just dishonest journalism.

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 11:08
Mandrake wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 09:55
So this little bugger failed on Saturday. Anyone want to guess what it is and for extra points what it is out of ? :)

Photo 18-07-2017, 9 46 35 am.jpg

A new one should be arriving today...

Image


Door lock or water solenoid out of a washing machine? Hotpoint...

Good try, but no. :)

Any other takers ?

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Michel
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Michel »

You have described in many true words why my next car will be a 272BHP BMW 535 D SE estate...

It'll still do 40+mpg.

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 12:38
The PSA 1.3 T Puretech engine (135PS?) is supposed to be pretty good - but like all these things, I've no doubt it will drink if worked hard!

Just noticed the blue badge on the back of this car says "Puretech" - in that case, colour me unimpressed! :lol: Puretech is probably some low CO2 marketing.... I wonder what's different between the 1.2 VTi puretech engine in this that puts out 82bhp (supposedly!!) and the 1.3 T that puts out 135 ??? :shock:

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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by white exec »

Only three contacts, so maybe not a relay....although a 3-contact relay is possible, if unusual.
Is there a hidden something on the back? Tube, twiddler...?
I know: G-force limiter from the Ion !
Or somethingthemanutacturerputinthatdoesn'tdoanythingusefulbutcostsagoodfewquidtoreplaceandrequiresacompletesystemreset, maybe.
Dunno.
Give up.

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CitroJim
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by CitroJim »

Simon, I'm sorry, I so badly want to read your latest posts and enjoy them but sadly, my current cognitive state disallows me to digest any thread longer than a few lines :evil:

I eagerly await an improvement as your latest epic looks jolly interesting :)

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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by white exec »

Hang in there, Jim. :wink: Take it easy.

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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by CitroJim »

white exec wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 16:20
Hang in there, Jim. :wink: Take it easy.


Thanks Chris :)

When I'm like this what I really need as a précis... :lol:

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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Mandrake »

white exec wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 16:00
Only three contacts, so maybe not a relay....although a 3-contact relay is possible, if unusual.
Is there a hidden something on the back? Tube, twiddler...?
Ok I'll stop teasing. :) It's from our 25 (?) year old glowworm system boiler, which decided to stop working on Saturday! :twisted:

It's the gas control electrovalve. The coil went open circuit so although the pilot light stayed on it failed to ignite the main burner when commanded... It turns out the coil sleeve is a separate part that just screws onto the main gas control module with a couple of screws, and slips over an aluminium post which will have a magnetically operated needle valve inside. Very much like the HA2 electrovalves in a Xantia! :) So about one minutes work to replace.

Most boiler parts suppliers only had the entire gas control and regulator module available for sale for about £100 but I managed to find just the electrovalve coil sleeve by itself on Ebay for £25, and it fixed the problem today. Result. :)
CitroJim wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 16:13
Simon, I'm sorry, I so badly want to read your latest posts and enjoy them but sadly, my current cognitive state disallows me to digest any thread longer than a few lines :evil:

I eagerly await an improvement as your latest epic looks jolly interesting :)
Sorry to hear you're not feeling too good Jim. I'm not sure that my long post is interesting as such, its largely just a rant. :lol:

It can be boiled down to Peugeot 208 1.2 VTi bad, Peugeot Ion good! :lol: I'm looking forward to getting my car back tomorrow as I did not enjoy driving the 208 at all, at least not with this grossly under-powered engine spec and high biting clutch! [-X

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Zelandeth
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Peugeot Ion blog

Post by Zelandeth »

Have to wonder if the clutch just needs adjusting.

My 107 had a ridiculously high clutch (which I kept mentioning at the services, repeatedly being told that there's no adjuster and they're just like that), well guess what I found in the engine bay one day...an adjustment knob on the clutch cable. After winding about an inch of cable out, I finally had a sensible pedal.

Sadly about six months later the release bearing ate itself...but not surprising given that the thing had effectively been riding its own clutch for six or seven years by that point.

Wonder if that's a common Peugeot thing...