Battery question again,

[wheeler]

Just to add a bit of confusion there are differen measurement standards of cold cranking amps EN, SAE, DIN, IEC, JIS. As you can see yours is measured in EN which is European Norm so it depends on which standard the battery is using to whether a replacement is man enough. Some of them are dual marked.
For example a battery rated at 180 cca DIN (german standard) is equivalent to around 360 cca EN.
Its just like saying something is 100 degrees Celcius or its 212 degrees Farenheight, both the same temperature but just written differently.
Im sure there will be a conversion chart somewhere online.
Also if yours has stop start you need an AGM battery, if you fit a regular flooded battery it probably wont last very long.

[qprdude]

Stop start ?? I'm still trying to come to terms with fuel injection! As you say, mine has the EN measurement, so I will be going with that. I'll be fitting like for like or higher and as near to the Varta currently fitted.

[vborovic]

If your car has a stop/start system, then there should be a button, next to the ambient light one, to turn the function on & off ... and, you will feel this when the car stops at the red light for example ... the manual says that there is a specific label in the car about the specific battery, and after installing a new battery, the stop&start system will again become active after the car idles continuously for a while (up to 8 hours) while being turned off ... the cold cranking capacity of the available recommended batteries is somewhere along 20%, for the top class battery, and unless you have very long and cold winters, I don't think the difference will justify the higher price of the battery and its potential longer life compared to the slightly cheaper variant ...

[qprdude]

Yes, I know what stop/start is and I don't have it. Sorry, the reply was kind of tongue in cheek.
Yes, we do have long cold winters and as my car has to remain outside, I want the best I can get in the way of batteries.

[vborovic]

I did thought that you don't have it, it was juts a generic answer in case someone else wonders what this is about ... ... we have several shops near where I live that give you a 25% discount on the purchase of the new battery if you bring your old battery in ... don't know if you have such possibilities in UK ...

[jgra1]

qpr, i still have a brand new exide batt you are welcome to,., but its for a 2.0hdi so maybe not quite enough,

John

[qprdude]

John, that's a brilliant offer , but I'm at the other end of the country from you. I'm not due back to Woking until April. Thanks all the same. Can't believe how helpful people are on this forum.

vborovic. I'll look into that, but to be honest I've noticed a few round my way that charge for the disposal of your old battery!! Bloody cheek, as they sell them on to scrap dealers at £350 a ton.
They are classed as special waste and have to be taken to a recycling centre normally.
I'm not a fan of stop/start. I've only seen it in action in a 1 series BMW and it didn't inspire me . I was in the city, and the engine stopped so often I began to worry about the battery and starter!

[vborovic]

I don't know what these shops do with the old batteries, I'm guessing they return them to the distributor/manufacturer or something, because I don't think anybody would pay YOU for handling YOUR waste ... ... the end consumer doesn't really care about what they do, as long as they get the benefit of the cheaper battery ... as for the stop&start system, the electrical system is a bit different from the standard one, regarding the starter and the whole electrical part that runs the car, starting from the different battery to the other systems that regulate engine (re)start ... I've had the chance of trying out the system in a BMW series 3 ... the car feels awkward while being turned off and you are waiting for a green light to start ... and how healthy is it for a car to start/stop hundreds of times if you're on a city drive each day, than a few times as normal, I don't know ... maybe it lower the CO2, somewhat, but no one is talking about the possibility of more engine failures ... and the cost of repairing them ...

[qprdude]

When I worked as a marine engineer, I used to get money for old batteries from scrap merchants. Going back a few years now but it used to be about £3 per battery. As we had Generators with up to 5 batteries in series, it was quite lucrative when the were replaced. Scrap merchant used to collect then too!
Yep, my feelings exactly on the stop/start technology, although I don't doubt for a minute that everything has been designed to prevent failure of components, it just didn't feel right. Almost as if you were stalling the engine all the time, then wondering if it would start OK again.

[taffy]

somethings about new cars do my head in!!..
i work in a car wash sometimes and i see alot of new cars and some people just cant control then..just asking them to put it in nutral is a task..like they have never seen it before...whats wrong with a gear stick instead of a bloody knob which people can just flick straight into reverse from drive...u dont find that on a gear stick!
cars are getting to the stage where its dealer only and its still gona be worth while paying more road tax to enable diy...even the hdi has wrecked me now really im getting a 1.9td one day again for sure as its a workhorse without a doubt

[qprdude]

My brother has an engineering company and he offered me the opportunity to buy a battery from his suppliers but I wasn't entirely happy about getting it VAT free at £78. The price with VAT would have been £106.
I got a quote from fitted for £98 from a local supplier for an 80AH 780 CCA. I went to the garage and they set up the tester and told me my battery was in perfect nick. The figures were absolutely spot on as the original spec. They even brought the new battery out and compared them as a double check.
The guy could have just fitted the new battery and charged me £98, but he said there was no point in dumping a perfectly good one.
The non starting has not been repeated. The car starts fine every time now. I have left it for a day and half and will give it a go tomorrow morning to see if it is sluggish. I'm scratching my head to understand what happened. When it didn't start, it had been sitting for a couple of days.

[Xantidote]

The guy could have just fitted the new battery and charged me £98, but he said there was no point in dumping a perfectly good one.

Honest and straight - you'll certainly go back to him, next time you have a problem.

Ignoring the modern electronics on your car, if it doesn't start next time, and the starter doesn't spin, then maybe a fault with the starter (or the solenoid, a glorified relay, which is mounted on top of the starter nowadays). I'm assuming no dodgy battery connections, but you car is still new (well it is to me )

[qprdude]

You're right Martin, any more problem with the battery and I will go back. Connections have been removed and cleaned. They look perfect and feel solid.
I'm a bit of an old fashioned car man myself, so it's interesting what you said about the starter. From memory (fading rapidly) when the engine turned over it wound a couple of times, then in "old parlance" it just whined, as if the bendix had sprung back, , stripped, or not been "thrown" in. (do they still do that? Is there still a bendix, can they stick?)
My knowledge of starters was when a sharp tap with a hammer could help, or a rock back and forward in 3rd gear)

[qprdude]

Well the car was left sitting for just a fraction under 4 days, after a relatively short journey. It started instantly without me hearing any winding over, just instant start.
I'm thinking I had done quite a few short journeys of a mile or less, (Shop/Stop/start/home), before the problem arose.

[Xantidote]

You probably understand the old type starters, where the spinning of the starter threw the starter pinion into contact with the flyring on the flywheel.

Had a quick read of a Haynes manual on car electrics. The modern (pre-engaged) starters are a little more sophisticated/clever. It all seems instantaneous, but on turning the ignition to start, the solenoid throws/pushes the pinion forwards (maybe using a pivoting lever) to engage in the starter ring, and milliseconds later, courtesy of the electricary, the starter motor is then energised/spins, and away we go. Hence the term "pre-engaged".

the engine turned over it wound a couple of times, then in "old parlance" it just whined

One theory: Maybe there was enough battery power to operate & spin the starter motor at the beginning, but not enough power to allow solenoid to keep the pinion in engagement with the flyring whilst turning the engine over, so draining the battery a bit and the solenoid then "relaxing" to allow the pinion to disengage whilst starter still spinning. That's one idea. Alternatively, there could be something not quite right with the starter/solenoid. Only time will tell.