Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Moderator: RichardW
- xantos
- Posts: 409
- Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 10:05
- Location: Slovenia
- My Cars: Xantia 1.9TD Break non-hydractive (1999)
Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Yep disconnected the injectors and then crancked engine and measure... So I did it wrong. That's me. If there is a way to do it wrong then thats my way
So I should strip a bit of insulation on the injector connection and do the measuring again with engine running?
I had my LPG system set to standard and it was running fine. Now I set it to pair and it's also running fine. Just trembling when revs are low and then flooring the throttle. I need to readjust my LPG map. I'm playing with LPG settings because it's thirsty! 13L/100km (21mpg if I'm correct). A bit too much as I don't drive like a madman. Most of the time around 2000rpm in 5th gear.
So I should strip a bit of insulation on the injector connection and do the measuring again with engine running?
I had my LPG system set to standard and it was running fine. Now I set it to pair and it's also running fine. Just trembling when revs are low and then flooring the throttle. I need to readjust my LPG map. I'm playing with LPG settings because it's thirsty! 13L/100km (21mpg if I'm correct). A bit too much as I don't drive like a madman. Most of the time around 2000rpm in 5th gear.
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Well, not sure I'd be too keen on actually stripping insulation.
Try to back probe the connector using a fine needle, or if that's not possible, pierce the insulation with it, then measure whatever happens to the needle while inserted.
When finished, gently heat any holes you've made and massage them closed.
With regard to your vibration, could this possibly be pinking?
Lots of cars running 95 RON unleaded pink around 2000rpm when presented with an open throttle. LPG would be a lower grade fuel, so slightly more prone to it.
Of course, modern cars have knock sensors to adjust the ignition timing to correct this, but they don't work very well at low revs, because the detonation is not caused by an advanced spark, but rather a hot spot in the combustion chamber.
So, I'm wondering could it be that you have detonation occurring in one cylinder, knock sensor telling the ecu, which retards the ignition as far as it can, leading to poor combustion on the remaining cylinders, but affording the hot one a chance to cool. Then the knock stops, timing advances, power returns, only to go through the cycle again!
Probably wide of the mark, but thought I'd put it out there...
Try to back probe the connector using a fine needle, or if that's not possible, pierce the insulation with it, then measure whatever happens to the needle while inserted.
When finished, gently heat any holes you've made and massage them closed.
With regard to your vibration, could this possibly be pinking?
Lots of cars running 95 RON unleaded pink around 2000rpm when presented with an open throttle. LPG would be a lower grade fuel, so slightly more prone to it.
Of course, modern cars have knock sensors to adjust the ignition timing to correct this, but they don't work very well at low revs, because the detonation is not caused by an advanced spark, but rather a hot spot in the combustion chamber.
So, I'm wondering could it be that you have detonation occurring in one cylinder, knock sensor telling the ecu, which retards the ignition as far as it can, leading to poor combustion on the remaining cylinders, but affording the hot one a chance to cool. Then the knock stops, timing advances, power returns, only to go through the cycle again!
Probably wide of the mark, but thought I'd put it out there...
Sparksie
2000 Xantia 1.9TurboD
2000 Xantia 1.9TurboD
- CitroJim
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Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
That's exactly what I do! Just mind out for pricked fingers It hurts...sparksie wrote: Try to back probe the connector using a fine needle, or if that's not possible, pierce the insulation with it, then measure whatever happens to the needle while inserted.
The TCT does have a knock sensor.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
I would avoid stripping insulation or poking holes in the insulation because unless you repair the insulation with an air/water tight seal the wire will eventually corrode and fail. (Although it might take years)xantos wrote:Yep disconnected the injectors and then crancked engine and measure... So I did it wrong. That's me. If there is a way to do it wrong then thats my way
So I should strip a bit of insulation on the injector connection and do the measuring again with engine running?
As sparksie says, the best way is to "back probe" the connector - it's very easy to do so on most 2/3 pin connectors where you can see the wires individually go down into the back of the connector - surrounding the wires is a flexible rubber like material, you push something sharp and very small in diameter (a sewing needle is ideal) down BETWEEN the insulation of the wire and the rubber that surrounds it.
When you push it far enough down into the plug it will make a reliable contact with the wire at the bottom. Sometimes more than one attempt is needed to get a good contact if you don't push it in straight. When the needle is withdrawn the rubber around the wires expands back into place and there is no exposed wiring to corrode so nothing to repair.
I actually made up a special test lead for semi-permanently back-probing connectors for long term diagnosis - I've used it mainly for the oxygen sensor but I have also used it on the MAP sensor and TPS as well. It's made of two cut off sewing needles soldered to the end of some high temperature shielded audio cable and then carefully heat-shrinked for insulation and mechanical support:
Shown above pushed into the back of the TPS connector before reconnecting the connector to the TPS. It's very tidy and reliable - I had it connected to the oxygen sensor for months and there is no risk of short circuit as the needle lengths were chosen such that they are not significantly exposed when pushed into the connector.
For your test all you need to do is carefully push four sewing needles into the negative wires of each injector, test that they have a good connection (by putting your test light from battery positive to each one in turn with the engine running to make sure they flash) and then carry out the test as described.
It's important that the injectors remain connected for my suggested test to work. The way it works is that if you connect the bulb between the negatives of injectors 1 and 2, if they both fire at the same time both will go from 12v to 0v at the same time so there is no voltage differential to light the bulb.
If injector 1 fires by itself the ECU will ground the negative of injector one and thus one end of the bulb, the other end of the bulb (which only requires about 100mA) will be powered from 12v via the series resistance of injector 2. (About 12 ohms) The same happens in reverse when injector two fires. So if they fire at different times the bulb lights but if they fire at the same time the bulb doesn't light. From this you can work out the firing scheme.
One other important note - checking how the injectors fire MUST be done when the engine is idling normally. You can't test it during cranking because most injection systems switch to an "unsynchronised" batch fired mode during cranking and only revert to their normal pair fired or fully sequential mode of operation once the engine starts.
Some engines also temporarily switch to firing all the injectors at once if you press the throttle rapidly then revert to their normal sequence a fraction of a second later. This is done for instant enrichment to avoid lean stumble. This may show up on the bulb test if you snap the throttle during the test.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
- CitroJim
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Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Simon, that's an excellent tool for back-probing Good work sir!
I shall have to make one of those as it'll find lots of use around here...
I shall have to make one of those as it'll find lots of use around here...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
- xantos
- Posts: 409
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Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Brilliant absolutely brilliant! Jolly nice tool!
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
- xantos
- Posts: 409
- Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 10:05
- Location: Slovenia
- My Cars: Xantia 1.9TD Break non-hydractive (1999)
Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
I've just uploaded a video to youtube in which you can hear my activa farting... It's a long one minute fart
If the link doesn't work (sent from my mobile phone) just write in youtube search: xantia farting, and it should pop up.
If the link doesn't work (sent from my mobile phone) just write in youtube search: xantia farting, and it should pop up.
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
-
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Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Somebody has been on the baked beans again!
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Xantos, I seem to recall there was some confusion over the front anti-sink valve when you replaced it, as to how many ports there are and whether all the pipes went into their correct ports ?
The noise (even on Xantia's working normally, which sometimes make this noise for a few seconds) is caused by oscillation of the front anti-sink valve. If the pipes are not going into the correct ports in the anti-sink valve the operation of the valve may be compromised in a way that can cause this oscillation to carry on much longer than it should be possible to, or in fact be the cause of the oscillation.
The noise (even on Xantia's working normally, which sometimes make this noise for a few seconds) is caused by oscillation of the front anti-sink valve. If the pipes are not going into the correct ports in the anti-sink valve the operation of the valve may be compromised in a way that can cause this oscillation to carry on much longer than it should be possible to, or in fact be the cause of the oscillation.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
- xantos
- Posts: 409
- Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 10:05
- Location: Slovenia
- My Cars: Xantia 1.9TD Break non-hydractive (1999)
Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Yep I've changed the anti-sink valve due to farting, as I was thinking that maybe anti-sink was faulty. So it's the same thing, with the new (used) anti-sink valve. The new had only 4 ports and I've changed it to 5 ports using parts from the old... Check a few posts back.
Just another thing... Farting changes frequency if I push the front down or I lift it up.
Just another thing... Farting changes frequency if I push the front down or I lift it up.
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
- xantos
- Posts: 409
- Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 10:05
- Location: Slovenia
- My Cars: Xantia 1.9TD Break non-hydractive (1999)
Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Finally managed to measure the injectors. This time properly and yes they are batch fired!
Leaks on the hydraulic circuit never end... High pressure regulator, front electro-valve, steering rack return collar are leaking. And also I've noticed that oil return pipe from the turbo is also leaking. Not much fortunately. But it's NFP now (it cost about 25eur when it was avaliable)...
And here is a pic of my front strut sphere if anyone can tell me if it's the correct one...
Leaks on the hydraulic circuit never end... High pressure regulator, front electro-valve, steering rack return collar are leaking. And also I've noticed that oil return pipe from the turbo is also leaking. Not much fortunately. But it's NFP now (it cost about 25eur when it was avaliable)...
And here is a pic of my front strut sphere if anyone can tell me if it's the correct one...
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Hi Xantos,
Original Citroen part numbers are here:
http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... a_spheres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
According to those the sphere you have is a 450cc front Hydractive 2 strut sphere (long life multilayer type) not a front Activa strut sphere. The Activa part number is 96221189.
However, the pressure, cc and damper bypass hole are the same, the only difference might be the calibration of the leaf valve in the damper. I believe at least one forum member (CitroJim ?) has used standard Hydractive 2 strut spheres on their Activa so I think the difference may be quite small.
Original Citroen part numbers are here:
http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... a_spheres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
According to those the sphere you have is a 450cc front Hydractive 2 strut sphere (long life multilayer type) not a front Activa strut sphere. The Activa part number is 96221189.
However, the pressure, cc and damper bypass hole are the same, the only difference might be the calibration of the leaf valve in the damper. I believe at least one forum member (CitroJim ?) has used standard Hydractive 2 strut spheres on their Activa so I think the difference may be quite small.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
- xantos
- Posts: 409
- Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 10:05
- Location: Slovenia
- My Cars: Xantia 1.9TD Break non-hydractive (1999)
Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Yep. So now I know I have the "right" ones.CitroJim wrote:
On my Activa I use standard Xantia Hydractive Spheres on the from corners and Hydractive Xantia Estate Spheres on the Rear Corners...
It works nicely for me...
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
- xantos
- Posts: 409
- Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 10:05
- Location: Slovenia
- My Cars: Xantia 1.9TD Break non-hydractive (1999)
Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
Forgot to mention that I've unplugged fuse F8 in the engine compartment, due to a leaky electrovalve. And the ride is a bit better now (doesn't make sense)... Still the suspension bottoms out.
I am waiting for the "device" for high pressure regulator test to be welded together. Hopefully it'll be today...
I am waiting for the "device" for high pressure regulator test to be welded together. Hopefully it'll be today...
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
- xantos
- Posts: 409
- Joined: 02 Apr 2013, 10:05
- Location: Slovenia
- My Cars: Xantia 1.9TD Break non-hydractive (1999)
Xantia 3.0 V6 Activa (1998)
C4 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mk2 (2010) - x 10
Re: Removing 2.0 TCT engine and other Activa thingies
High pressure regulator tested yesterday (after a bit of LHM shower )
Test results:
- cut-in 140bar
- cut-out 170bar
So I would say in the normal region (-5bar). Well another variable removed from the equation...
I bet that my problems are security valve related, since the STOP light goes out immediately.
Test results:
- cut-in 140bar
- cut-out 170bar
So I would say in the normal region (-5bar). Well another variable removed from the equation...
I bet that my problems are security valve related, since the STOP light goes out immediately.
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT + LPG (1998) (peeing b****!) RIP
Xantia Activa 2.0 TCT (1998) (burnt b****!)
Xantia Activa 3.0 V6 (1998) (not a b****! yet )
C4 Exclusive 2.0 HDi (gear shifting b****!)