Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

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wellad
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Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by wellad »

Northern_Mike wrote:The engine does not have enough power or torque without the box to potter along at 30 in 4th. With the box, it does.

How hard is that for you to understand? There's guys on the Berlingoforum who've dynoed the same box - without the box, 89BHP, 155lb/ft. With box, 107bhp, 186lb/ft.

Is that really so difficult?
I'll repeat again, all the box is doing is upping rail pressure, the same end result as pushing the throttle down. And again, 30 mph in 4th is ~1450 RPM, at which point the standard 90 map is requesting 180 Nm of torque at WOT and getting ~15 MPG. You're suggesting that by increasing power further you're saving fuel? If your car is bogging down with a requested 180 Nm you have a more serious problem. Peak torque occurs after 2000 RPM, so dyno results are largely irrelevant for this. You seem to be getting very worked up over this!

You also haven't told me your theory on how putting an unknown additional quantity of fuel into the engine increases efficiency. I'm sure the guys in Citroen would be fairly curious too, you might even be able to make a few million with that idea!
2003 Citroen C5 2.0 HDI 110
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

From what I have read, some tuning boxes do increase the pressure, but others adjust the timing intervals for the injectors (allowing them to stay 'open' fractionally longer), which allows more fuel in without stressing the HP pump or fuel rail.
James
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Northern_Mike

Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by Northern_Mike »

wellad wrote:
Northern_Mike wrote:The engine does not have enough power or torque without the box to potter along at 30 in 4th. With the box, it does.

How hard is that for you to understand? There's guys on the Berlingoforum who've dynoed the same box - without the box, 89BHP, 155lb/ft. With box, 107bhp, 186lb/ft.

Is that really so difficult?
I'll repeat again, all the box is doing is upping rail pressure, the same end result as pushing the throttle down. And again, 30 mph in 4th is ~1450 RPM, at which point the standard 90 map is requesting 180 Nm of torque at WOT and getting ~15 MPG. You're suggesting that by increasing power further you're saving fuel? If your car is bogging down with a requested 180 Nm you have a more serious problem.
Who the hell drives with WOT at 30mph , in a 30 zone in 4th gear?

Requesting and producing are two very different words. You can find out yourself when it produces max torque, then tell me how long it takes to pull that engine speed from 30mph in 4th at WOT in a brick shaped Berlingo

You don't really understand the point do you? You've also no experience of the box I use or my vehicle. If you're using WOT in 30 zones when pottering about I'd question your driving ability too..



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Northern_Mike

Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by Northern_Mike »

wellad wrote:
Northern_Mike wrote:The engine does not have enough power or torque without the box to potter along at 30 in 4th. With the box, it does.

How hard is that for you to understand? There's guys on the Berlingoforum who've dynoed the same box - without the box, 89BHP, 155lb/ft. With box, 107bhp, 186lb/ft.

Is that really so difficult?
You also haven't told me your theory on how putting an unknown additional quantity of fuel into the engine increases efficiency. I'm sure the guys in Citroen would be fairly curious too, you might even be able to make a few million with that idea!
So yes. It is too hard for you to understand. I've already stated that for a given engine speed, accelerator position and load then it is more inefficient with the box.

What I can't get into your head is that the box allows me run in a higher gear at a smaller throttle opening than without it.





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wellad
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Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by wellad »

Northern_Mike wrote:What I can't get into your head is that the box allows me run in a higher gear at a smaller throttle opening than without it.
What you don't seem to grasp is that's exactly what the box is doing, increasing the throttle. But in a very inefficient manner. How do you think it's developing more power, magic and witchcraft?
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howiedean
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Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by howiedean »

wellad wrote:
Northern_Mike wrote:What I can't get into your head is that the box allows me run in a higher gear at a smaller throttle opening than without it.
What you don't seem to grasp is that's exactly what the box is doing, increasing the throttle. But in a very inefficient manner. How do you think it's developing more power, magic and witchcraft?
Whatever the magic box is doing, its increasing the max torque and achieving this at a lower RPM; this is not simply opening the throttle, now when you apply a throttle setting more fuel is being injected! But remember the turbo is providing boost and therefore gainfully extracting more torque from a minor increase in fuel input. The more torque you can get lower down the rev range, the more efficient it will be to drive in this band.
I've had both a remap and a tuning box on various HDI's (been their done it and now have the T-shirt), the PSI Powerbox is an absolute cracker, if you go down the Tuning Box route and they occasionally come up on Ebay.
Remaps are a little more difficult to predict you need to go to someone who knows what they are doing as there many different tweaks that can be made to car to make it perform the way you want it (mild to wild tune, generic or one produced on your car)!
Anyone who hasn't experienced a well done remap/tuning box modification, needs to drive one before commenting on what they are like or how they perform!

One last point which is very important whichever route you go down! Make sure your insurance company is aware of modifications that have been made, no one here wants anyone to fall foul of this if an unrelated accident does occur and your insurance becomes void......

Howie
Howie

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Northern_Mike

Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by Northern_Mike »

howiedean wrote:
wellad wrote:
Northern_Mike wrote:What I can't get into your head is that the box allows me run in a higher gear at a smaller throttle opening than without it.
What you don't seem to grasp is that's exactly what the box is doing, increasing the throttle. But in a very inefficient manner. How do you think it's developing more power, magic and witchcraft?
Whatever the magic box is doing, its increasing the max torque and achieving this at a lower RPM; this is not simply opening the throttle, now when you apply a throttle setting more fuel is being injected! But remember the turbo is providing boost and therefore gainfully extracting more torque from a minor increase in fuel input. The more torque you can get lower down the rev range, the more efficient it will be to drive in this band.

Howie
Thank you Howie.

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Northern_Mike

Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by Northern_Mike »

wellad wrote:
Northern_Mike wrote:What I can't get into your head is that the box allows me run in a higher gear at a smaller throttle opening than without it.
What you don't seem to grasp is that's exactly what the box is doing, increasing the throttle.
No. It's increasing the fuel pressure. While may increase the amount of fuel injected slightly, it's not increasing the throttle. Oh. It doesn't produce loads of smoke at MOT either. It's been through two so far with the box on.

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colin machin
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Re: Re-map or tuning box? 2.0hdi

Post by colin machin »

had a remap on c5 hdi 2002 95 bhp cost £250 plus vat best £250 iv ever spent car is a lot better to drive very responsive vast improvement been done for 3 years now with no problems
C5 2007 HDI
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