C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

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Peter.N.
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Peter.N. »

Cutting out very occasionally is the problem but its only ever done it in Cornwall, I was in Devon and Somerset today and it was OK.
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by jgra1 »

Is your non starting temperature related or does it depend on how long its been standing?
is that for me Peter? :twisted:

I have helped write a 6000 page document on my cold start problems..

I think I am now getting to the conclusion that It's not related to temperature,, :shock: :lol:
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Peter.N. »

I'm just wondering then if its what I suspected my problem was - the in tank pump, or has it been changed? Do you hear the pump run when you turn the ignition on when it doesn't start?

Peter
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by jgra1 »

yeah,, ..

car runs well... starts sometimes.. but right now, no chance of starting even after 3 hours rest.. which is a new development
something is failing more and more, or not switching when cold, or blocking with every passing day..
that's as far as I have got now, in 2 months with this problem :)

once running -car is powerful, economical, smooth, quiet and a pleasure.. as it has always been
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by BX »

OK I'll try. but with an Irish accent it isn't going to be easy!!!!
jgra1
Back to the starting. These engines need 200 bar rail pressure to start. To get 200 bar pressure either the high pressure system needs to be absolutely perfect or the engine needs to crank at nicely over 200 rpm. Had one lately cranking at 180 rpm and showing 89 bar rail pressure:- no start. Changed the starter and it now whizzes over and starts instantly. It starts too quickly to get readings. before getting involved in complicated stuff i would make sure that the engine is cranked quickly enough. I might sound ok until it is either compared to another or measured. Park it on a hill, get it pushed or towed or try another starter. I cannot remember who posted the readings on the other post but the cranking rpm was definitely on the low side.
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by jgra1 »

thanks very much BX..

I may get a brushbox for the SM this weekend.. and / or grab a spare starter,,
once 2 pesky xmas parties are dealt with I can concentrate, on Saturday :)

will report back..
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops. Cured?

Post by Peter.N. »

We went to Cornwall again yesterday, no problems until we were just coming into St Austell and it stopped again, tried to start it and after a couple of minutes it did. On the way back it stopped again exactly where it did last time, my wife made quite intelligent observation, she said it always happens when we are going down hill, and she was right, we got home, about another 100 miles fine then going down the quite steep forest track into our property it stopped again, this time I noticed the 'stop' light on, useful I thought, just managed to coast into the yard.

When we left here in the morning it was displaying 'low engine oil level' I ignored it because its done it before and I have checked it and found it OK, the warning went off and didn't come on again. I checked it this morning and it was indeed low but the yard is on a slope so you never get an accurate reading. I put about half a litre of oil in and it started fine, I have just now changed the oil - at less than 8000 miles but I drained out 4 1/2 litres, allowing for what I put in that has got to be 3, 3/4 litres.

I suspected that it could be low oil level but only if the engine has a zero pressure cut out - does it, does anybody know? If so why should it do it with all that oil in it?

Or any other suggestions. :? :? :? :oops:

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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Mandrake »

Did you ever get your Lexia working Peter ? If so my first suggestion would be to check the engine ECU for fault codes as I would image that something that caused it to cut out completely should show up.

My second suggestion is did you ever replace your in tank fuel pump as you said you would ? If not, is it possible the swirl pot is not working properly (one way valve near the base not sealing properly for example) causing fuel starvation on steep slopes ?

I swapped my in-tank fuel pump (including swirl pot) for a 2nd hand one a few months ago when I was chasing intermittent poor performance - it made no difference to the performance problems but since then I've noticed occasional fuel starvation during hard cornering/acceleration when there is less than about 20 litres of fuel left.

For example if I have 15 litres left and I take a sharp right around a round about then boot it full throttle up the adjacent hill, after a number of seconds the engine will completely cut out with a jolt for about 3-4 seconds then come back to life again as if nothing happened. It's only done it 2 or 3 times, always in the same place in the same circumstances, always with a near empty tank, and frightened the heck out of me at first.

My theory is that the one way valve (with the rubber plunger) at the bottom of the swirl pot is not sealing properly so that when the level in the main fuel tank is low so too is the level within the swirl pot. Add in the slope of the hill and acceleration and the pump becomes momentarily starved for fuel and pumps air to the injectors...

I plan to swap my original pump back into the car in the spring as there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it and I never had this symptom until after swapping the pump assembly over. (Albeit it has only happened very rarely)

Perhaps your swirl pot is not working properly and a long stretch of steep slope combined with a low tank is running the pump dry. A petrol engine will start running again as soon as the air is pumped through and fresh fuel arrives but a diesel will be a lot more difficult to start with a fuel line completely full of air...

Another thing that could cause the swirl pot to be low in level enough to cause starvation on slopes is a weak fuel pump which only has just enough delivery to supply the injectors and not enough "over supply".

The over supplied fuel that returns back to the tank via the return line actually goes into the swirl pot not into the main tank, so its this return fuel which both fills up the swirl pot and is directed at the one way valve at the bottom to hold it closed to prevent the pot draining back to the main tank. If the return flow is only a dribble it won't fill the swirl pot above the main tank level meaning that on slopes with a low tank the pump may get starved easily.

If you haven't swapped your in tank pump and swirl pot assembly over already, I would try that next.
Simon

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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Simom

It fails on a long downhill slope with no throttle, when you get to the bottom and start to accelerate you find there is no power and the stop lamp is on. I checked yesterday by turning the ignition on when it stopped and could hear the pump running but it wouldn't start until a couple of minutes had elapsed, it then ran perfectly until I was about 200 yards from home on a steep downward hill. Have not changed the pump yet. It never fails under load, only when running with the throttle closed. The tank on most occasions has been about 3/4 full.

Have not fixed my Lexia yet, I am going to try installing it on another computer, when the time and inclination coincide.

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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Stickyfinger »

Stickyfinger wrote:Mine did that on my present car just after getting it. Took the EGR wiring connectors apart (big plug socket) (down under the back of my engine :( ), cleaned them with spray (helps to be an Orangutang with the aim of a Sniper), problem cured..
Have you done this yet ??
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Peter.N. »

Err no, I had forgotten about that but will bear it in mind if I have any more trouble, since I changed the oil its going OK but I need to put a few miles on it. If it does it again I will check that - not really the weather for it at the moment.

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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Stickyfinger »

just your symptoms are exactly the same as mine were.

I am convinced that water gets up there as spray if no under-shield is fitted
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by taffy »

funny this...i used to park my car pointing uphill where i parked it (so everyone can see how pretty she is) and the one day i parked it downhill cause i was being lazy it hasnt started since!
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Peter.N. »

Stickyfinger wrote:just your symptoms are exactly the same as mine were.

I am convinced that water gets up there as spray if no under-shield is fitted
Did yours only fail going down hill?
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Re: C5 2.0.Hdi occaisionally just stops.

Post by Stickyfinger »

bugger
Last edited by Stickyfinger on 30 Dec 2013, 17:41, edited 1 time in total.
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