xantia TD one time fail to start

[Xantidote]

Leak off pipes are always a suspect

And someone usually pops up with the reminder to check/replace the sealed end bit of pipe on the nearside injector (gearbox end)

[aerodynamica]

Performed fine for the rest of the day - I just replaced the leak off pipes including the sealed end bit so hopefully eliminates one avenue of enquiry. The old pipes were still soft rubber but they didn't put up much resistance pulling them off - the replacement pipes are a snug fit. Those outgoing pipes were less than 2 years old.

Priming bulb still hard before and after this job.

[quintet]

intermittent problems have a habit of coming back - Need to tell us more. Presumably you got it going in the end, and weather's not too cold at present.

Any idea how long or number of spins of starter before it fired up? Was it very lumpy with lots of smoke from exhaust?

I assume when it's running, it's developing full power when foot to floor, suggesting the fuel filter's not blocked

PS. In answer to your question, air in fuel system can allow fuel to run back to tank. Whether this happens would, I suspect, depend on exactly where the air leak is located

Good luck

Rather then me start a new thread i thought i'd 'bump' this one as the fault 'aerodynamica' had seems very similar to that of my own. I've not replaced any parts on my own 1.9td as yet but any opinions would be appreciated.
The issue with my own car is that it usually starts well in the mornings (always give it 2 lots of heat) however when i switch it off after 10 mins or 10 hours it can be a right swine to start, it coughs & splutters like petrol engined car with a misfire & churns out rather a lot of 'smoke' + it's also developed a 'misfire' under heavy acceleration (typically 'up' motorway slip roads). The (genuine) leak-off pipes are approx' 2.5 yrs old as is the fuel filter & (beru) glow plugs, the primer can take varying amounts of 'pumps' from a couple to 8-9+ but doesn't seem to make much difference to it's starting & iv'e had a good look for fuel leaks but non are apparent. The first thing i intend to replace is the leak-off pipes, i could cut their ends off & re-seat them but they already look a little short + a new fuel filter wouldn't hurt (apart from the current one being black at it's base the rest of it looks a healthy golden color). The only other thing i've noticed is injectors 2 & 3 are rather more damp than i'd like but to be honest i think they've been like this for ages, so like i said, any opinions on this issue would be appreciated....before my credit card gets a bit of a kicking!

[aerodynamica]

Hiya sorry tho hear of your problems- must say that the smoke sounds like a bad glow plug. Is it grey smoke?

[taffy]

id say glow plugs for ur starting...leak off pipes cheep so deffo do that..do ur fuel filter and run some injector cleaner through her(bit stronger than u should) and see how u get on..
its gona get very cold soon so you want to know u have good glowplugs atleast

[quintet]

Hiya sorry tho hear of your problems- must say that the smoke sounds like a bad glow plug. Is it grey smoke?

I would say so, typically greyish/blue (not black) with a fairly rich smell of (typically unburnt) fuel & fairly hefty dose of it when it decides to be particularly hard to start.

[quintet]

id say glow plugs for your starting...leak off pipes cheep so deffo do that..do your fuel filter and run some injector cleaner through her(bit stronger than u should) and see how u get on..
its gona get very cold soon so you want to know u have good glowplugs atleast

i could run a test on my current glow plugs but if i'm gonna take them out to do that i might as well just replace them, much the same for the leak off pipes & the fuel filter has probably done over 30k so it'll be past it's best too. I might well run a resistance test on the glow plug wiring too although i've no idea what it should actually be & to be honest im not sure i can be bothered trying to figure it out as my multimeter is a bit rubbish to say the least. I'll have a go with the injector cleaner too, i actually hoped to get the injectors reconditioned this year but never managed to get my other car back on the road so i couldn't take the xantia off the road.

[taffy]

http://www.wikihow.com/Test-Glow-Plugs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
id just get new ones but thats me but heres a nice easy way to test them

[uncle buck]

@ aerodynamica,

How you getting on with your starting problems since the new leak off pipes?


@ quintet,

Best to only change one thing at a time ...if you change the glow plugs, filter, leak off pipes all in one go you don't know what was causing the problem!


Cheers.

[aerodynamica]

Well! Since changing the leak offs it has been perfect - not a single instance of duff starting whether cold, hot, uphill, downhill, full or empty tank or duration of time parked up. So I'm surprised that the leak offs were such a factor. Thanks for the advice, I'd assumed the pipes were fine since they were only replaced just over a year ago but you live and learn!

My new problem is central locking and front axle knock mystery so fuel system good for now!

Just as an aside: the biggest improvement I've found was in bypassing the plastic diesel filter housing and fitting a clear filter in line. You lose the fuel heating from the housing but gain an instant starting engine with a priming bulb that's always one squeeze. You do have to make a 10-8mm adapter for the pipes though. Well worth it mind!

[quintet]

@ quintet,

Best to only change one thing at a time ...if you change the glow plugs, filter, leak off pipes all in one go you don't know what was causing the problem!


Cheers.

Decent idea, i may well leave the choice of parts to replace down to what 's available in stock but given the option i'd like to change the leak-off pipes first, which i hope to sort out this thursday.

[uncle buck]

@ aerodynamica,

Good to hear that your starting problems have stopped, those pesky leak off pipes



@ quintet,

Yes just one thing at a time with a few days between each, hopefully the first thing you change will sort it.



Cheers.

[quintet]

Getting hold of the leak off pipes have proved typically tricky as they're not in stock but i hope to pick the pipework up on tuesday, in the mean time the car is behaving sufficiently but but im thinking a new set of glow plugs will be purchased rather soon too despite those currently fitted being only about 3 years old (Beru; + my car spends most of its life on the motorway & very little 'stop/starting' so not overly worn/used).

[uncle buck]

I used some thin clear tube that I had for the leak off pipes, you have to make sure it's petrol / diesel resistant. Don't use that clear stuff with the criss crosses through it as it goes hard.
You could use silicone tube ....take a look on ebay there's loads of it cheap.

The TD's do give the glow plugs a hammering as they stay on after starting for a while, 3 minutes if I remember correctly, that is unless the coolant is over a certain temperature or the throttle is opened to a certain point for a few seconds.

If replacing the glow plugs I would advise you to steer clear of the NGK brand, they make good spark plugs but their glow plugs don't seem to get on with the TD engine. I noticed very poor cold starting as soon as they were fitted in my TD, after trying a couple of sets in case of a bad batch I still had poor starting, changed to a different brand and the poor starting was gone!


Cheers.

[Xaccers]

I believe there are two types of glow plugs, and only one of them can handle the long heat so if you get the wrong sort they burn out.