Replacement of housing-seal of Bosch VE Dieselpump

[Xaccers]

I used something like red gasket sealant to do mine when I had to replace the cam.

If you're going to do a belt change don't forget to replace the waterpump too. They don't like being disturbed and have a tendency to start leaking if not changed and then you have to do the job all over again.

[bigjim]

OK Jim, that is good to hear. Have you been able to see the video, containing the sound that I hear where the crankshaft is stopped while turning? Is that sound indeed coming from pistons touching valves?

To be sure for the record, I have had found the hole behind the Starter motor all the time, it has been the driving of the pin through that hole into the corresponding hole in the flywheel which I could not do. I can feel the drill-bit end touching the flywheel when rotating the crankshaft by hand. I suppose there is only one hole like that behind the starter motor and not two.
Looking at the pictures in an older Haynes concerning Citroen Diesel (not XUD9 however) that the sprocket on the crankshaft has two threaded holes to pull it from the crankshaft once the bolt is loose. I reckon that those 2 holes are at a 90 degree angle to the line that crosses the woodruf slot. This should give me an indication to where TDC should be of the crankshaft and thus flywheel-hole.
I am correct in this or are these threaded holes not guaranteed to be at 90 degrees to the slot an a Xantia XUD9 engine?

[bigjim]

I used something like red gasket sealant to do mine when I had to replace the cam.

If you're going to do a belt change don't forget to replace the waterpump too. They don't like being disturbed and have a tendency to start leaking if not changed and then you have to do the job all over again.

I am going to replace the waterpump as well. I have discovered over the last month that some water is hanging of the bottom the engine. Could not locate yet where it is coming from. Due to this project/job and the distribution belt that was due to be changed I already decided to replace the waterpump. This is the first time I will replace the waterpump on this car, so they can last 500.000 km, which is amazing.

[bigjim]

The camshaft is easy to remove Jim.

I am wondering if the air inlet manifold is not hindering the lifting of the camshaft cover. I cannot even see how the manifold is to be removed since it is in between the engine and the cabin. How much space do I need to lift the cover up and slide it off sideways.

[bigjim]

What I finally did was a bit controversial in my mind, but it worked out fine. Since I did not know where TDC was on the crankshaft, due to the shifted belt, I decided to drill a hole into the flywheel via the inspection hole, where the TDC mark is supposed to show up. I was able to drill a hole with subsequent drillbits of 2 mm upto 7 mm, using a magnet to remove the iron debris. To most of us this will sound scary, which it is. But I dreaded the removal of the camshaft more. Due to the way the engine is tilted with the head to the cabin of the Xantia. After the hole which was made just beside and under the a tooth of the flywheel, I was able to put a hexagon-tool (made in Western-Germany, so according to some high steelnorms) in it so the flywheel would be blocked when turning the bolt on the crankshaft off it. This worked without a problem. I was able to take the bolt and the pulley off. The hexagon tool was not bent by this procedure and the aluminium housing of the gearbox was also not damaged. I could see that I turned the crankshaft before like 135 degrees off its original position, so about 7 tooth over the belt.
I am not sure if there is going to be a noticable inbalance in the flywheel now, we will see about that.
So currently I am waiting for my timing belt and auxiliary drive belt and waterpump to arrive so I can finish this project.

[oscar]

Hi Laser Tools do a tool for locking the flywheel up on them found mine on flea bay less than a tenner looks a bit like a piece of flywheel with a bolt lug to bolt to block.
5th gear is best to use with a big boot on brake inc H'brake and nearside wheel on ground and use a long handle and crack it quickly.
the head does come off in situe you can lower engine down as should have it supported while have top engine mount off!
You will find it easier to move crank etc if you remove heater plugs so less of that jump as you compress.
Try to find an OE water pump as less chance of getting cavitation etc as many copies use steel impellers that have a gap between it and body which stirs water up and increases water pressure most OE have ali impellers.
You need crescent spanners for remove lower of the three nuts that hold pump to cradle what i did was glue the nut to the washer and ground a spare ring spanner thinner with a short handle you need one with little of set as it needs to turn into the slot underneath pump doing that allows you to place nut on end of bolt without it slipping past then can work it round with tip of fingers etc at an "%&* angle theres a unthreaded bit on end of bolt so it goes on it.
You will need the 2 bolts into end of pump to remove sprocket around 5 O'clock position viewed from righthand side going from the mark on top so slightly canted forward as engine lays back as a few holes in pulley to choose from but only 2 correct!
and make sure you have a magnet handy along with some clothe etc to stop the woodruff key disappearing into the dark down below but if you have bottom pulley off it's not so bad but just remember to ear mark it somewhere safe as when replacing sprocket and timed up it will be roughly at lowest area towards crank well was on mine and don't think they altered sprockets?
I can try and C&P if you need link for locking tool! the seller i got it from also does the pegging kit for less than a tenner inc p&p to uk atleast

This is one But a "platinum" priced sealey one http://www.toolsdirect2you.com/sealey-v ... v-fso.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flywheel-Lock ... 2574dd873a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This one gives you 3 of them. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Peugeot- ... 2ecb307340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bigjim]

I am in no need of such a tool since the pulley is loose now using the drill option as I did. I doubt that it would have worked since you need space above the tooth of the flywheel. In case of the Xantia diesel, there is not enough I think. Anyone else tried this on a Xantia Diesel?

[KennyW]

JIm,

From what I have read you have now found the 8 mm hole for the timing on the fly wheel. That's great.

It will be a case of slow and easy to align all three timing parts

1. Cam sprocket
2. Fuel pump sprocket
3. Fly wheel

Keep up the good work and keep the forum posted on progress.

Kenny

[bigjim]

Hello Kenny,
After having removed the lower pulley on the crankshaft I could indeed find the 8 mm hole in the engineblock. I am waiting now for a new drivebelt to arrive. Today I decided that it would be a good idea to see that I can turn everything slowly via the crankshaft using a cup-tool. What I have found now is that I cannot do that, to my great surprise. After both upper sprockets have turned 90 degrees something blocks and the belt goes off the crankshaft tooth and slips. So something is blocking very heavily. So either one of the valves has been bent and blocks a piston, or something is wrong with the dieselpump. I have not connected back the fuel-pipes onto the dieselpump or connected the diesel. Since I cannot do to much about the valves I decided to take the dieselpump out. I released the tension of the belt and also got the pump-sprocket out. Now on my modest workbench I am trying to rotate the pump with the sprocket on it. And it seems to get stuck on some point. I do not know if it possible to turn it by hand, but this does not feel right.
Question: Is it possible that after the changing of the big O-ring on the distribution-head, something went wrong inside the pump. I assumed after seeing a youtube movies about how to change this seal that releasing the bolts only to the point that I can just access this seal would mean that no parts inside do come off or out of something.
I am in need om some information of how to check from the outside that a Dieselpump is well assembled. Maybe Citrojim is in the know on this, I am surely hopeful of that.

[Stewart(oily)]

you are just out of synch, you have locked the crankshaft at TDC and have pistons at the top, locked there with the new found hole, if you need to turn the camshaft you might need to take out your pin and rotate the crankshaft backwards 90 degrees, you will then be able to turn the camshaft to the required position without hurting anything, then rotate the crankshaft back and put the pin back in. now fit and tension the new belt. easy

[bigjim]

Hello Forum,

Bad news I am afraid: I removed the Distribution Head of the pump. Something I hoped to avoid. But since I removed the seal on the Distribution Head, I instinctively thought that maybe I could find some broken springs or something in there, which would also explain the regular light sound I heard when moving the pump pulley around, via the crankshaft bolt.
I made a provisional stand on my workbench to have the Distribution Head facing up and removed the mounting plates and finally gradually lifted the Distribution Head. Which is pushed outwards by the springs.
Not knowing exactly how everything is supposed to look like, although there are photos of this procedure available (http://gnarlodious.com/vanagon/bosch_pump/-Rebuild and http://www.eastment.net/boschpump8.htm) in real life it still looks different, especially the size and feel of things. So at first I put everything aside that came out. After inspection however I noticed that there was something wrong with the Distribution Shaft : It been broken.....
The picture below I took of this.

So, I had a dark moment after that discovery. I can only imagine that it has been broken the moment I put in the new seal. Although I only did slightly release the Distribution Head, still it went wrong somewhere.
The fit of the Shaft is immensely precise, there is virtually no play in between the shaft and the hole in the Distribution Head. One should really take care and revolve each screw crosswise and halve a turn at the time. I did this to my belief very slowly and gently, but I suppose the truth of the matter is that I did not do that well enough.
But now the question is, what is the next best step. The Distribution Shaft should be replaced, but is that a part that is terribly expensive or not? Is it maybe better to find a second hand pump. Considering a Xantia Diesel can be bought for 1000 Euros, with a pump in it, means that I am not willing to spend hundreds of Euros on it.
Any thoughts on this on the French Car Forum?

[bigjim]

I found a second hand dieselpump on the Web (for 100 Euros) of a Berlingo 1.9TD from 1999:
http://img.tweedehands.nl/f/preview/141 ... 1-9-td.jpg
It seems to be a Bosch 0460 494 554 - 601-5, where the one I have now is a Bosch 0460 494 427 - 601-2
I suppose that that one should work without any adjustments for my Xantia 1.9 TD? I am only wondering about the seleonoid lock. Now I have a keyboard-lock with electronics that go on top of the selenoid. I suppose I have to replace that with the one I have now.
Anyone can concur with this based on experience with this?

[bigjim]

Interesting PDF from Bosch about VE pumps. It has nice photos in it. It gave me some background information about my Xantia Diesel Pump.
http://download.informail.nl/Bosch_VE_Pumps.pdf

[KennyW]

JIm,

Ignore my PM it is obviously too late I've just read your post

Just get a new pump and fit same. Less hassle.

I think the one you have found will work fine.Just change the solenoid put your old one on instead of the other one

Kenny

[bigjim]

Kenny,

The journey has been very interesting going back in time of some stunning engineering by Bosch. As a mechanical engineer, who apparently was led around this subject, I am baffled by the way mechanical diesel pumps work. Common rail is a piece of cake I assume.
In the end I ordered a pump from another second hand dismantler. He charged 200 Euros, but it has the same number, and supposedly only 127.000 Kms. The downside: It has a Antitheft metal casing fitted and a Electronic Key device of which I do not know the number of. So, it has to be taken off, and then I have the option to connect it to a contact-switchable 12Volt lead, or the same black Solenoid Control block. My trouble with this is, that I again will be endangering the old possible brittle seal. So, the thought crosses my mind whether or not to replace the seal before I try to fit it in the car. Considering the way I, however careful in my mind, handles my original pump, do I want to go the stretch again. Somewhere along the path I must have unevenly bolted back the four corner bolts of the Distribution Head. If the pump is like 12 years old or so, which I will have to conclude from the way the aluminium housing is looking, I will do it and do everything dead slow.

Many thanks for your mechanical and mental support Kenny and Citrojim, it is very much appreciated by me. Feels like there is at least somebody behind my back adding some wise words when required.
Big Jim