Lucas EPIC Injection Pump Overhaul Guide

[haroonstar77]

Look at this video for overhauling EPIC Lucas Pump

[moizeau]

Zut alors!, you could run a separate forum just discussing that! Especially like the fact that his missus has obviously told him to remove his shoes so that he doesn't get the floor dirty.
Non,non et pour le troisieme fois NON

[CitroJim]

Zut alors!, you could run a separate forum just discussing that! Especially like the fact that his missus has obviously told him to remove his shoes so that he doesn't get the floor dirty.
Non,non et pour le triosieme fois NON

[XMcoda]

Hi, I just joined the forum. I have a few XM breaks with 2,1 td engine (xud11bte) and Lucas EPIC pump. They all have pump related problems. Symptoms are engine misfiring, stopping etc. Engines may run nicely for half an hour and then suddenly starts jumping, misfiring and stopping. I just changed pump on the worst one and this is now running without problems.
I,ve been told that the problems are most likely caused by mechanical wear inside pump, but if so I guess the problems would be more consistent..? Can it be electrical problems/ solenoids?
The cars have been running for ca 220.000kms.

Do someone in here have a good explanation to the problems?

Regards!

[moizeau]

Hello and welcome. Unless the fuel filter changes have been completely ignored there's very little chance of mechanical damage. Or it's been run on an alternative diesel, in which case it's probably ready for the bin. I've found that if you lose the tickover once it's warm the culprits are the top solenoid o rings. Next question, does it leak? Put your hand underneath the pump after it's been on a run for a couple of kms. If you've just changed the pump on one car then you have a spare? Recon the spare, swap it over, job done. You will need an overhaul manual for best results. It can be the wiring, but normally the problems would start from cold.

[XMcoda]

Thank you for responding. The problem is not most prominent when cold engine. It seems to appear more frequently after the engine have been running for a while. I suppose this is a very common problem as all of my Lucas equipped engines have/ had the same symptoms.
You suggest I recondition the spare pump. What kind of recon? Only seals or also bearings, solenoids etc?
Could it be the pump is sucking air and this is causing the problems? Then maybe a new seal kit would do...

[moizeau]

Hi, If you have several 2.1 engine cars it would certainly be worth reconditioning the pump, if not for anything else, for a spare. By recon I mean a seal kit, about 36 euros in France for genuine Delphi. Certainly not solenoids etc. as each individual solenoid bank, and all other 'wired' component is about 200 euros each. Unless the bearing feels rough, leave it alone. The problem lies with the brittle seals allowing fuel to travel along the wrong channels, meaning that it can't be governed correctly. You will need a manual. I also set up a test bath to check for leaks prior to refitting the pump. This saves a lot of time.
Does the pump leak, check underneath the pump after you have done several kms. Depending on whether it leaks or not, may mean you can do a repair in situ for less than 10 euros in an hour. When removing any of the wired components be very delicate and move them as little as possible. The insulation on the wires goes brittle over time, the more the wires are moved the more falls off, exposing bare wires that can short.
Very important to find out if it leaks.
Before going all out and attacking the pump, it is important to check the obvious first. Fuel lines for excessive air, fuel filter for leaks, copper washers on the intake to the pump. Check the basics first, it's easy to overlook these because of the reputation the pump has. I'm sure Jim will add anything I've missed. Let us know how you get on with the checks and we can go from there.
All the best

[XMcoda]

I haven't noticed any leaks but I will check this. I have to renew timing belt and water pump, so it`s not so much extra work to dismantle the pump. It would be interesting to try the one hour in-car-fix to locate the problem(s). I already purchased a gasket kit: Delphi 9109-750. I guess this contains all the parts I need?

[CitroJim]

I already purchased a gasket kit: Delphi 9109-750. I guess this contains all the parts I need?

It certainly looks as if it does

Where did you obtain the kit from? I ask as another member in the UK could not find a source of supply.

[XMcoda]

Hi. I got this from a diesel workshop in Norway. This morning I ordered the same kit from an eBay supplier in France. Much cheaper (if it arrives).
Search on eBay for Delphi 9109-750 or follow this link:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kit-guarnizio ... Swv9hW2KTK

[CitroJim]

Excellent! Thanks for that and good to know

[red_dwarfers]

Hi,

I bought my seal kit from Electro Diesel in Exeter, Devon a few years ago.

The kit doesn't included the stop solenoid plunger or spring which are both worth changing while parts are just about available, I get the idea that once current stocks have been run down they will become unavailable.

I bought a pack of 10 springs from Hickleysin Bridgwater, Somerset. They cost around £10 for the pack. They couldn't get hold of the plunger. The Taunton branch doesn't deal with Diesel pumps.

The plunger came from Electro Diesel in Exeter, this was around £12.

I quoted them the two part numbers and they called me back. If I didn't have the P/Ns I don't think they would have been willing to look. I don't have them to hand at the moment.

[moizeau]

Yes it does, but you'll need to buy some o rings to replace the ones you've used
The parts for the top solenoid are 19mm id x 1.5mm (2 off) and 6.65mm id x 1.8mm (2 off) . i couldn't get the smaller size so used 6.75mm id x 1.78mm, It's been fine. Only use FPM seals, not garden stuff. Viton is a manufacturer of FPM seals. Like saying hoover instead of vacuum cleaner. They come rated in temperatures, i.e FPM70 . I've used the 70 and 80 with no issues. Apparently as the temp rating gets higher they get less supple.
To change them,remove intake and any other bits to give you good access to the pump. Remove the top plastic cover. Remove the 4 torx screws holding the top solenoid bank down, gently lift it at an angle to give access underneath. An assistant is very useful here.Do not move the solenoid excessively as it strains the wires, and keep movement to a minimum to as not to crack the, probably already brittle, insulation. Remove the 4 o rings. Clean the mating surfaces with a lint free cloth. Lightly spear Vaseline on the pump mating surface to ensure the o ring doesn't move. Fit the o rings. Lower the solenoid bank back onto the pump body being careful not the dislodge the rings (Use 2 of the screws as a guide) Replace domed washers. Lightly screw down the 4 torx screws. Tighten working from the centre out to 6.0Nm +/- 1.0. The driver size is T25. Bleed pump with ignition turned on to open the stop solenoid. Crank engine, possibly with 1 injector cracked open a little to assist final bleed. Start. It will sound like a hot rod without the air intake on. Check for leaks (misplaced o ring). If OK refit cover and other bits and see how it drives. Cleanliness is next to Godliness.
Best of luck

[CitroJim]

An excellent addition to the guide

Cleanliness is next to Godliness.

Absolutely yes! Advice to ignore at your peril. The cleaner the better Aim for surgical cleanliness and don't even begin to strip the pump until it is externally spotlessly clean... So clean that you could take it indoors and the other half would not complain

[XMcoda]

"So clean that you could take it indoors and the other half would not complain " I would have to clean it for a long time using some super stuff:)

Guess it´s a good idea to replace the stop solenoid plunger and spring. I found a kit (Delphi 9109-719) at injecteurdiscount.fr (http://www.injecteurdiscount.fr/contents/fr/p4858.html).
20 euros for plunger, spring and o-rings.

moizeau: Do I get it right: The kit is complete for a full recon but I need extra o-rings if I want to try the one hour in car fix before dismantling the pump?
It´s a specialist store for o-rings and seals where i live so I will check if they can support these rings. Thank you for all the info on dimensions etc.