V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

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Trainman
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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

I've double checked the VIN number against the car and the V5 and they are correct so that rules that out. I've spent most of today chasing my tail for SWMBO, this is driving me nuts.

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by CitroJim »

You really need to try another Lexia or ELIT on it Steve... There must be someone nearby with a Lexia surely?

It still looks like a protocol problem to me as the fact you can see the engine ECU means the socket is basically working. In an S1 the engine and gearbox ECU share a common K line so if you see one you should see the other so long as the Lexia can speak its language.

It might be worth a look under the battery at the ECU connector as it's not exactly a lovely place to house an ECU. Check too the connector on top of the gearbox. It's called a KOSTAL and it has a twist ring to undo it.

Wish I was a lot closer....

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by CitroJim »

Oh, Steve and another thing. Try forcing the Lexia to try speaking S2 to it... You may need an S2 VIN and RP to do this...

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

Paul used my LEXIA at CXM on his S2 and that worked, okay. It could be a dodgy connection on the adaptor. I take Simon point about CANBUS, what I need is another S1 or another LEXIA.

Question though, if the box is going into third and forth, would it be okay to drive to Paul's, the route is basically M6, M56 and A55?

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

I looked at the ECU yesterday and it looked OK, no signs of rust, connection was tight, plus there's a protective plastic cover over the top of it

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

CitroJim wrote:You really need to try another Lexia or ELIT on it Steve... There must be someone nearby with a Lexia surely?
There's nobody on the map, so unless somebody has one that isn't on the map and is willing to just let me see if it will connect I'm up the proverbial creek...... :cry:
CitroJim wrote:It still looks like a protocol problem to me as the fact you can see the engine ECU means the socket is basically working. In an S1 the engine and gearbox ECU share a common K line so if you see one you should see the other so long as the Lexia can speak its language.


Double Dutch to me.... :oops:
CitroJim wrote:Check too the connector on top of the gearbox. It's called a KOSTAL and it has a twist ring to undo it.
done that, and given it a spray of cleaner, still nothing...

Image
CitroJim wrote:Wish I was a lot closer....
You and me both, I'll PM you my number and we can have a chat, they say it's good to talk.......... :-D
CitroJim wrote:Oh, Steve and another thing. Try forcing the Lexia to try speaking S2 to it... You may need an S2 VIN and RP to do this...
I spoke to Paul this afternoon, and got some details off him from one of the "fleet" it was still the same

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by CitroJim »

I'm nearly all out of ideas now Steve. Still, on the brighter side, at least if you had a ABS fault you could diagnose that a treat.

Sorry for my double-dutch :oops: Its the language the ECUs use to speak to a Lexia.

Just one last thing to try... Rather than going into the Lexia Diagnostic menu go into the Replacement Parts menu and see if you can see the gearbox from there. That's where the option to re-initialise the auto-adaptives are Steve and if you can see the gearbox in that menu you may be able to do a re-initialisation and make it all work again. Try it both as an S1 and an S2. It's worth a shot.

If that doesn't work then I don't think it's a good idea to go any great distance in it. The problem of driving all the way to Paul's in third emergency is that the torque converter will remain unlocked and it's really not designed to be unlocked continuously and under power in third gear. The result is potential overheating of the torque converter and the ATF which in turn could cause damage to the 'box and the TC.

You'll also find the car bloody awful to drive and very slow to take off from junctions and so on.

I really think it's better for Paul to come to you in this instance Steve.

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

CitroJim wrote:I'm nearly all out of ideas now Steve. Still, on the brighter side, at least if you had a ABS fault you could diagnose that a treat.
Nice to know I can do something :roll:
CitroJim wrote:Just one last thing to try... Rather than going into the Lexia Diagnostic menu go into the Replacement Parts menu and see if you can see the gearbox from there. That's where the option to re-initialise the auto-adaptives are Steve and if you can see the gearbox in that menu you may be able to do a re-initialisation and make it all work again. Try it both as an S1 and an S2. It's worth a shot.
Okay, That will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon when I've finished work.
CitroJim wrote:If that doesn't work then I don't think it's a good idea to go any great distance in it. The problem of driving all the way to Paul's in third emergency is that the torque converter will remain unlocked and it's really not designed to be unlocked continuously and under power in third gear. The result is potential overheating of the torque converter and the ATF which in turn could cause damage to the 'box and the TC.

You'll also find the car bloody awful to drive and very slow to take off from junctions and so on.
I think I may have confused you a little, so I'll try to explain it differently. Yes the car will start in third, but changes to 4th gear as per normal, I can see the rev counter drop as it changes up, it will also change down from 4th to 3rd as per normal. If I let the car sit for a while then the gear box will move happily between Reverse and 1st gear, however, it won't change up to 2nd gear either automatically or manually, in fact, it won't change from 1st to any other gear manually. Now then, If I get the car up to speed, let's say 60mph, the rev counter sit's quite happily at around 2000rpm.
CitroJim wrote:I really think it's better for Paul to come to you in this instance Steve.
That's not to much of a problem, I'm in the RAC so they can do the work if necessary :-D I really don't want to drag Paul all the way over here to then have to drive all the way back when the RAC can take me.

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by CitroJim »

Trainman wrote: I think I may have confused you a little, so I'll try to explain it differently. Yes the car will start in third, but changes to 4th gear as per normal, I can see the rev counter drop as it changes up, it will also change down from 4th to 3rd as per normal.
That's good Steve, that shows the ECU is working and at least doing something useful. OK, on that basis then you should be OK taking it carefully... Good job there's tunnels now on the way to Paul's and you don't have to climb those really steep hills..

Did your Anglesey visa come through OK?

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

I've tried S1 and S2 settings and still can't get any further, that I already have, I've even used the VIN number of a completely different Xantia, I've tried S1 settings with the S1 and S2 VIN I've also tried S2 settings with the S1 and S2 VIN nothing changes. I've double checked the Lexia by plugging into the C6 (I know it's CANBUS but just wanted to make sure the Lexia hadn't gone faulty).

Stumped, unless the adaptor is no good, which has been mentioned before......

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Mandrake »

Trainman wrote: I think I may have confused you a little, so I'll try to explain it differently. Yes the car will start in third, but changes to 4th gear as per normal, I can see the rev counter drop as it changes up, it will also change down from 4th to 3rd as per normal. If I let the car sit for a while then the gear box will move happily between Reverse and 1st gear, however, it won't change up to 2nd gear either automatically or manually, in fact, it won't change from 1st to any other gear manually. Now then, If I get the car up to speed, let's say 60mph, the rev counter sit's quite happily at around 2000rpm.
A very confusing set of symptoms you have there! And I'm afraid your description is still a bit contradictory... :? If you're sure its changing between 3rd and 4th it can't be in 3rd emergency mode then, which means that the ECU does have at least SOME control over the gearbox.

By the way, it can be hard to tell the difference between a shift between 3rd and 4th, and a change between 3rd with the torque converter unlocked and 3rd with the converter locked up - the converter locking up will drop the rpm some 500 rpm or so, while a full gear change will be more like 800 rpm.

You say that sometimes its starting in 3rd gear (from stationary I assume) but will change between 3rd and 4th ok - that sounds like snow mode to me, is there any possibility that a fault in the snow/sport button circuitry is intermittently putting it into snow mode ?

Also you say that sometimes it works ok until you put it into reverse, and THEN you have problems, that goes along with Jim's suggestion that there could be something wrong with the multifunction switch which detects the gear lever position. Only drive, neutral, reverse and park positions make changes mechanically in the gearbox, 1, 2 and 3 are detected purely by the electrical switch operated by the gear lever.

So when exactly is it staying stuck in 1st gear, and when is it starting in 3rd gear ? You're not clear about that. When it doesn't want to change up past 1st gear have you tried putting it in snow mode and then manually changing to 2nd or 3rd ?

I'm not sure if you're aware but snow mode combined with 1st, 2nd or 3rd positions is effectively full manual gear control - in this mode you can force an upshift (for example to 2nd) even if you're going too slow for 2nd and where it wouldn't change to 2nd with the gear lever in 2nd but the mode in normal. (I use this sometimes to defeat the anti-pollution mode where it tries to rev 1st gear to 3500 rpm on a cold engine)

It really does sound like there is something wrong with the multifunction switch and/or the snow/sport control circuit, if so it would be an easy fault to diagnose if you had Lexia communication as you can instantly see the detected position of all the input controls in parameters measurement and would quickly spot a discrepancy between actual control positions and those registered by the ECU!

Unfortunately you have what is most likely a completely separate issue with Lexia communication that you need to get to the bottom of first...

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

Simon,

If I start from cold and drive off, it starts off in first gear, I can drive in first and the revs will happily go above 4000, if I then change up through the gears, it remains in first. However, if I stop, move the selector to neutral and then drive it goes into third, from the standing start, as I reach a speed of say 50mph, I can see the rev counter drop from around 2500 to 2000 rpm (I'm not sure whether it's more or not, I'm to busy keeping my eyes on the road).

I'm stuck with the LEXIA issue, until I can get to Paul's on Tuesday, or I buy another LEXIA, there's only me around here with one. As for your suggestions about snow mode, I'm more than happy to try anything...... so I'll have a go at that tomorrow after work.

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by bxzx16v »

The old girl is certainly testing you Steve #-o.

Mark

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by xantia_v6 »

sorry I missed. the beginning of this. I am not sure if you found the ecu fuse, it is F8, the 25A (white or translucent ) fuse in the engine box. If it blows, the engine stops, and gear lever wont leave P, which can be a little inconvenient in the middle of a three point turn.

The multi-function switch sounds like the culprit here, note that it has its own connector. On the mk1, the snow and sports lights are located by the switches beside the gear lever. They should be flashing if the transmission is in limp mode.

What happens if you select N, switch. the ignition off then on and start the engine and then just drop gently into D?

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Re: V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

Post by Trainman »

bxzx16v wrote:The old girl is certainly testing you Steve #-o.

Mark
:roll: she sure is......... :roll:
xantia_v6 wrote:sorry I missed. the beginning of this. I am not sure if you found the ecu fuse, it is F8, the 25A (white or translucent ) fuse in the engine box.


I've checked all the fuses are OK using a multi-meter, I'll change it when I get home later and see what happens.
xantia_v6 wrote:The multi-function switch sounds like the culprit here, note that it has its own connector. On the mk1, the snow and sports lights are located by the switches beside the gear lever. They should be flashing if the transmission is in limp mode.

What happens if you select N, switch. the ignition off then on and start the engine and then just drop gently into D?
I haven't seen any of the lights on the sport/snow mode buttons flash in the time, I've been playing with this, but hey, I'm willing to try anything.

I suppose the obvious question is where is the multi-function switch located?

I'm still planning on heading over to the "Back of Beyond" AKA Paul's on Tuesday, so anything, anybody thinks of, I'm more that appreciative of.......