V6 Xantia......... the beginning of another adventure

[Trainman]

The likely hood of a C6 petrol Exclusive is not worth consider, I've been looking for 2 years.

For me the Xantia becomes the classic, with the nice touch of LPG, the Peugeot will be converted and become the daily driver, the C6 becomes what it always was.... the special cruiser and head turner

[KP]

That poor rare pug getting all the miles piled on it! If only you could use public transport to get you to work and back :p

[Trainman]

Lol

[Trainman]

Got back about an hour ago, the gearbox behaved flawlessly so I'm extremely pleased with that The cruise control, however, still doesn't work, so it looks like there's a split pipe somewhere so one day next week, I'll begin the task of checking them all, I have a feeling it's going to somewhere under the NS wheel arch liner, as that where the previous split was about a year ago.

Another thing we noticed yesterday was the positive connection to the battery terminal had snapped where the bolt is, so a trip to Halfrauds on the way home, new connector bought and fitted.

I can thank Jim enough for the amount of time and trouble he went to yesterday, although my delicate ears are still cringing at the amount of 'cussing' and 'profanity' I don't think it's physically possible to do some of the things he was suggesting and on a sunday too.............

The chilli was rather good, and must have been edible, as I'm still here, and the chocolate brownies were a bit on the 'Crouton' size but otherwise rather jolly......

[Mandrake]

Sounds promising Steve...

Before you go climbing underneath checking the pipes, I'd double check the brake pedal switch again - they can be very cantankerous. Just remove the small bit of carpet trim above the drivers feet (one screw and a number of plastic clips) then you can get access to the brake pedal switch connector without disconnecting it or removing it from the pedal arm...just poke the meter probe in the back of the connector.

Measure from ground to each pin in turn with the ignition key on - the left one (from memory) is permanent 12v, the middle is 12v only when pressed, the right hand one is 12v only when NOT pressed. This last is the cruise control. It's an easy check to do before digging deeper into the bowels of the system...

Also see my troubleshooting steps early on in my new Xantia V6 thread - it's a bit of a pain on a S1 that you have to lift the seat and carpet to get to the ECU but if you get access to that and you have some electrical knowledge I find that a MUCH easier way to troubleshoot the system than fiddling about under the front guard as the vacuum pump and purge valves can be manually operated while the car is parked, making it much easier to find the problem...

Of the two faulty Xantia V6 cruise control systems I've fixed so far neither was a vacuum hose leak!

[Trainman]

Before you go climbing underneath checking the pipes, I'd double check the brake pedal switch again - they can be very cantankerous. Just remove the small bit of carpet trim above the drivers feet (one screw and a number of plastic clips) then you can get access to the brake pedal switch connector without disconnecting it or removing it from the pedal arm...just poke the meter probe in the back of the connector.

JIm had the switch off and in bits yesterday Simon, so I'm confident it's not that.

Also see my troubleshooting steps early on in my new Xantia V6 thread - it's a bit of a pain on a S1 that you have to lift the seat and carpet to get to the ECU but if you get access to that and you have some electrical knowledge I find that a MUCH easier way to troubleshoot the system than fiddling about under the front guard as the vacuum pump and purge valves can be manually operated while the car is parked, making it much easier to find the problem...

Of the two faulty Xantia V6 cruise control systems I've fixed now neither was a vacuum leak!

Righty Ho, worth a shot, I could do with taking the seat out anyway, to do another job............. so two birds at the same time.............

[bxzx16v]

I'm glad it's sorted now Steve, you can fully enjoy it now.

Mark

[CitroJim]

Delighted to hear the gearbox was happy going home Steve Excellent!

I can thank Jim enough for the amount of time and trouble he went to yesterday, although my delicate ears are still cringing at the amount of 'cussing' and 'profanity' I don't think it's physically possible to do some of the things he was suggesting and on a sunday too.............

Steve, it was a pleasure Very much enjoyed, except when I thought I'd blown up the spare ECU but apart from that a brilliant day. Didn't half sleep well last night! Woke up as bright as a button this morning at normal time.

And the profanity, by WFA standards, was mild. Believe me, when the going really gets tough the profanity follows suit. We took it easy too knowing your sensitive disposition

The chilli was rather good, and must have been edible, as I'm still here, and the chocolate brownies were a bit on the 'Crouton' size but otherwise rather jolly......[/quote]

Excellent My cakes are always small so that I'm not tempted to eat too much. You were more than welcome to have more than one you know!

Simon, we did find the brake switch a bit on the iffy and intermittent side. It failed perhaps one in three times and was a tad high resistance when it was OK so I popped it apart and cleaned the contacts. We then achieved a consistent zero ohms on each test and we did maybe 50 or 60 tests before refitting it.

Steve, if it's not a vacuum leak we'll have a look at it next time you're down this way

[CitroJim]

I'd be interested to know the exact 'mechanics' of the ecu fix.

Just how do you go about wiring between two ecus which are poles apart and how exactly do you 'make' those connections?

Not something i've ever known how to do but hear of it happening all of the time.

Well, first of all Mike, you need to take the advanced WFA profanity course and achieve an A* grade.

Then, you need to arm yourself with the wiring diagrams and determine what needs to be bypassed. How we did Steve's was to expose about six inches of loom at each ECU connector and then tease out the individual wires. In theory each wire has an identification number on them but they're often illegible so then it's a case of using a meter on audible continuity with one end connected to the relevant ECU connector pin and then using a very sharp needle to prick each wire down to the conductor until you find the one you need. Repeat for the other ECU connector!

Quadruple test and ensure over and over again you have the right wires. A mistake might damage the ECUs.

Then, once the wires are identified, with a sharp knife peel about 3/16" of insulation back on the wires in question and solder to these exposed areas the bypass wire. Insulate the joint with high quality tape. Run the bypass wire neatly and carefully around the back of the engine bay.

Check again it's right and the bypass wire is safe from heat damage and chafing damage.

Reassemble, tidy up and test.

In the case of the gearbox ECU we had to dismantle the connector itself to get enough loom exposed.

Much profanity happens when the needle pricks your finger rather than the wire under test It happened many times yesterday!

[KP]

Jim you need a good old BT tone and amp kit

In some of the countries worst Bt exchanges I've been able to track down pairs in piles of 1000's and those jumper wires are as thin as some of citroens best cost cutting ones

[CitroJim]

Jim you need a good old BT tone and amp kit

Yes, wonderful things Will Not used one in years now...

It would really have saved me from lots of pricks on Sunday

[Trainman]

Here's something of interest, I never noticed yesterday, given the amount of roundabouts in Milton Keynes, but I've driven from home to Runcorn this morning and the gearbox seems to be changing at lower rev's, normally it would get to around 3300 revs before changing out of first (like Simon has previously described) but this morning I noticed it changed at around 2600 revs.

[Mandrake]

Interesting observation Steve

The fault you had shouldn't affect the change up points since they're based on measured road speed not engine speed, however, the fault probably would have caused problems with regulation of torque converter slip.

So potentially the torque converter lockup had been staying open (thus allowing about a 600-800 rpm slip) when it should have remained closed. (Less than 50 rpm slip)

Therefore the engine rpm is potentially up to 600-800 rpm less for the same road speed under certain conditions now...(you might notice an improvement in fuel economy)

Assuming your ECU has the old 0501 edition firmware like mine, there shouldn't be any depolution mode when cold - mine changes up to 2nd on light throttle at about 2400-2600 when cold while on the other car with the new ECU firmware it was always 3300 for the first two minutes after a cold start...

Do you notice any difference in the acceleration characteristics of the car ?

[Trainman]

Do you notice any difference in the acceleration characteristics of the car ?

Not really Simon, but there again I didn't push it to hard this morning, I'll be driving home this afternoon, so will have a check and report back.

[Mandrake]

I didn't really mean hard acceleration performance, rather the pickup characteristics at lower speeds.

For example slowing down for a round about then accelerating away again from about 15mph while still in second. That kind of thing is critically affected by the torque converter lockup.