S1 Xantia 1.9TD - Engine running very erratically

[citroenxm]

Perfect pete thats the area and to the left of the arrow.. dry it all up as best you can and run the engine for about 5mins..

If its bad you will soon see it on there.. else it might take a 20min drive to show up.

[pete the bus]

Well I've cleaned up all around that area, let the engine idle for 10mins or so, and it's remained totally dry. I will take it for a short drive, although I'm not too keen to take it out as it's likely to die on me at any moment!

[pete the bus]

Took it for a 20min outing, uphills, along dual carriageway, and around town. It was awful!
It's very erratic - sometimes it's like a spark plug is down on a petrol - misfiring, coughing and spluttering, and hesitant on acceleration. Sometimes it is smoother, but always down on power. It stalled completely at least 4 times when slowing down at roundabouts or lights - scary when the power steering goes and you're going round a bend! And smoke - sometimes lots of it, sometimes not so much, and not always when under load, sometimes it seems to smoke more when decelerating.

Anyway, after I got it home I looked underneath and could see no obvious signs of wetness or leaking under the pump.

Hey- ho, I think this is bound for the scrappers...shame, coz otherwise it's not too bad for it's age and it's got 8 months MOT on it

[citroenxm]

What the heck can it be then! Soo unuseual for a DERV..

Isnt Citronut in your area, he might cast an eye over her and know sraight away..

[pete the bus]

All I can think is that the injection pump is knackered. What is puzzling me is that this all happened at once - one minute it's fine, parked to collect someone, and on return and after starting it all goes wrong! And just a couple of days after buying it from a dealer!

Ebay ad for it is here, if anybody wants to have a look...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Xanti ... 7675.l2557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[citroenxm]

Wait a min.. is that a keypad for the immobiler????

Then its possible afterall that it could be a semi electronic controlled pump..

Has the second injector from the left got a wire going directly to it??

If it has an ecu it could mean a competly different thing again...

[pete the bus]

Yes, it has a keypad. So it could mean I've got a faulty ECU? I will get my torch and go have a look...

[citroenxm]

Check all plugs and connections.. be double sure..

[pete the bus]

There are no injectors with wires to them. There is a single connector on the right hand side of the injector pump that has 3 or 4 wires on it.

[pete the bus]

Definitely not a ECU controlled pump. There is no black connector on the top of the pump, no wire going to any of the injectors, and no ECU unit under the big black box on the left side of the engine bay (just a little unit with a few wires coming from it). But it does have an immobilizer keypad.
So I guess I'm looking at a semi-knackered pump? Is there anything to be gained by taking the pump off and having it apart? Or will it need to go on a test-bench? Or maybe it's an issue with pump timing? Is there an easy way to check this?

[citroenxm]

Ive never opened one up, never needed too..

I wonder what our residant Bosch member would think of this problem..

Im suprised he hasn't had a read

[Old-Guy]

Don't give up yet.

Replaced the leak off pipes (albeit with the less than perfect fitting braided ones from Halfrauds), run clear tubing from primer bulb to filter and from filter to injector pump with only a trace of tiny bubbles from bulb to filter.

There's your problem (or at least part of it). Air ingress. There's no fuel lift pump: the injector pump sucks fuel all the way from the tank and the leak off circuit is joined in on the suction side of the pump. Under no load, the engine is using little fuel, so the pump doesn't have to suck too hard (against the probably clogged up tank filter) but as soon as you try to use some power, the pump is starved, the 'vacuum' in the fuel feed increases and the pump starts sucking more air than fuel. You don't need fancy braided pipes, just some ordinary (cheap) fuel pipe that fits properly. Try temporarily replacing the leak off pipe from the last injector to the pump with clear polythene pipe to see if that's where the air is coming from.

And check the tank filter! Use a piece of wood on the lugs, you're much less likely to snap them off than using a screwdriver or anything else metal. If it's reluctant to rotate, squirt some WD40 into the joint. You can even gently tap the wood with a hammer.

[CitroJim]

I'd agree Guy, this really does sound like fuel starvation... Can't be much else really...

It's unlikely to be the pump... They don't just doe suddenly or if they do it's often a broken plunger spring which is fatal and causes the engine not to run at all.

One thing worth checking is that the return fuel line banjo is not blocked. It has a very small hole in it and this sets the transfer pressure of the pump. If it's blocked the pump will not work at all correctly...

In fact also check the fuel return line itself is not blocked. Disconnect it from the pump and blow down it. You should be able to blow bubbles in the tank if all is clear...

[pete the bus]

I pretty much think I've narrowed it down to a pump problem.
I've filled a can of fresh diesel and connected this straight to the injector pump, bypassing any feed from the tank and also bypassing the filter and associated pipework.
I've also cracked, one by one, the injectors themselves to see if the smoke would clear and it would run smoother (of course realising it would be on 3 cylinders).
I've blown down the return pipe to make sure it's not clogged, and I've checked the leak off at the injector by running a pipe straight into a bottle. All seems fine.

Will maybe be selling this on soon - Taxed till July - MOT till February. It has other issues but I could live with them if I could sort this engine problem. Anyone interested at £250?

[pete the bus]

One thing worth checking is that the return fuel line banjo is not blocked. It has a very small hole in it and this sets the transfer pressure of the pump. If it's blocked the pump will not work at all correctly...

That's about the only thing I haven't checked...can you give me more info please? ie. How to check if it's blocked or not.