Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now!)

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8615
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 664

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG

Post by Mandrake »

Old-Guy wrote:
Xac wrote:When it's all working, the soft ride is softer than the SX.
For us, that's one of the attractions of Hydractive. Travelling down through France with two up plus quite a lot of luggage and a full tank (of cheap Gazoil) confirmed my view that the Sx's (GSF Amtex) spheres were getting a bit tired after 5½ years and some 46,000 miles. My problem is that now having only one Xantia in the family, I've nothing to compare ours with, and any gradual deterioration is highly subjective.
Don't let the Hydractive 2 scare you, (I've seen you post before saying you prefer the simplicity of the standard set up) the improvement in both ride quality and handling is worth the extra two spheres and the slight potential of more things to go wrong IMHO.

Most of the Hydractive system is very reliable, the main failure point is the diodes in the electrovalves which can go open circuit so retrofitting the external diodes is a common modification that can be done either to fix already faulty diodes or as a preventative measure. The Hydractive ECU is no less reliable than an engine ECU, and even if it were to break down you would just be stuck in the hard springing/damping mode which is firm but still safe and perfectly drivable, it's not something that is going to strand you away from home like a blown big end bearing...

Both my Xantia's have been Hydractive 2 and I wouldn't have it any other way. My parents both had non-Hydractive Xantia's so I'm intimately familiar with their characteristics as well, and they just don't compare. The ride in the soft mode is far better than the SX, but naturally only if the suspension is mechanically well sorted - eg spheres, drop-links, bushes, rear arm bearings etc. At the same time the handling is greatly improved, much more tight and stable when you push it hard around corners etc, and it responds much better to emergency manoeuvres like swerving to avoid something on the road, the system kicks in instantly and firms the suspension keeping the car stable and under control.

There's plenty of knowledge on the forum on the Hydractive 2 system so I'd say go for it!
Xac wrote:The hinge area looks a tad strange with that lighting, it could be they re-welded it at somepoint.
Even my wife noticed, I wondered about re-welding too.
Does look slightly odd. Problems with the welds of the drivers door hinges on Estates is a well known issue, its possible that they have already been welded or may need welding. I wouldn't have thought it would be a show stopper if the rest of the car is in good nick though. Just allow for the possibility that the hinges may need welding when bargaining with the buyer...
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

I had mine done by a panel shop, they charged $500 including blowing new paint over the jambs on that side.

It's hard to get sufficient penetration unless you are a good and confident welder; have seen a few where they've simply re-tacked it to the outer skin (which defeats the purpose of that inner panel in some ways).
KP
Posts: 3980
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 12:11
Location: Warrington
My Cars:
x 27

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG

Post by KP »

Why not consider a C5 instead? the HDi lump is just as good and strong in my experience and can be just as frugal if not more so?

Also if your doing a lot of long runs making sure the AC is in top condition and the ducts are cleaned out is worth while and fitting some cheap leather thats been well steam cleaned and gliptoned is well worth it and cheap to do :)

The 2.1TD is pretty good but i'd be tempted to get it remapped if possible to increase low speed pickup as Xac has already said about it as you will pick up on it.
Stick to 1/2 service intervals as it helps the engines no end i've found and get the coolant and LHM flushed as they could have been in there a while :(
User avatar
lankytim
Posts: 218
Joined: 23 Mar 2013, 20:53
Location: Stoke on Trent.
My Cars:

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG

Post by lankytim »

Is this poor Xantia being abandoned in France then? Tragic! Surely there's a cheaper way to get it home?
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

I would have thought, arranging another engine to be fitted in France should be an option.
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG

Post by Old-Guy »

Topic revived. Looking at a number of S1 Xantias including our VSX, I realised just what amazing condition the Green Lady is.

After 4 weeks battling with the AA with the green lady languishing in France, we have a compromise which will bring the car back to the UK. Subject to being able to arrange for workshop use (and possibly including some paid-for help), we are able to resurrect the plan to do an engine/gearbox transplant, using the Bosch pump and other bits from the blown lump to bring the replacement engine back to 1995 spec. - no engine ECU, no EGR.

So as soon as the green lady is home, I need a good, low mileage, XUDT9 and gearbox (the existing one always was a bit whiney) to 'down-grade' to 1995 spec. - what's going to be easiest to 'adapt' and any possible pitfalls?

Anyone got a suitable one with known history not too far from Gloucestershire? PM me please.

I will take the sump off to see what went BANG - I shall be interested to see if my blind diagnosis is correct. But even so, I wouldn't trust the old engine without a complete strip and rebuild (and I'd need a donor engine for crank and a set of con-rods as I've no idea how Citroen selected sets of 4) - not worth the time and money.

I will have a complete spare set of auxiliaries and the various new bits fitted to the dead engine over the last few years including new cambelt (< 1,000 miles!), low mileage adjusters, and auxiliary belt. I'll strip it down to the block before weighing it in.

While the replacement engine is on the floor, I shall re-fit that almost new cambelt, fit a new clutch, thrust bearing and pivot bushes (stupid not to), as well as changing the injection pump ( and injectors?) for the old one.

Comments, advice and suggestions all welcomed - even if I stubbornly ignore some. :roll:

The VSX? We need it for a while as transport (not least to tow the trailer to fetch that engine/gearbox that someone is going to offer) so I need to finish de-snagging it - nothing major or difficult: diode mod, sort the fuel starvation problem, replace some spheres. When the green lady is restored to health, the VSX will be for sale - a good buy for someone.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by citroenxm »

Well Guy, Theres an engine here, WITH an aready fitted Laminated Gasket and running perfectly in that department.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8615
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 664

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by Mandrake »

So you don't like the VSX then ? Or do you just prefer the devil you know ? :)
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
User avatar
Xaccers
Posts: 7654
Joined: 07 Feb 2007, 23:46
Location: Milling around Milton Keynes
My Cars:
x 184

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by Xaccers »

Guy you can have the one from my old LX at my parents in Leighton Buzzard.
It ran smooth when it was in the car. £50.
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)

DIY sphere tool
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by citroenxm »

Guy, Ill Beat Xacs price, £40 ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by Old-Guy »

VSX: lots of miles, and had lots of money spent on it, but not had the the same care lavished on it. I like the extra power and (alleged) economy of the 2.1 and the better ride (I've still got some issues with the Hydractive to sort out). But, although the VSX is two years younger, it's done another 75,000 miles, it hasn't had the same care lavished on it and it shows in lots of little bodges. Base of the 'C' pillars have been plated - solid job but crude ditto plate in O/S cill for new MoT. In contrast Steve, my tame neighbourhood panel-beater did the same job on our old Montego about 10 years ago - totally invisible, looked like new.

SX:- is simpler, easier to work on and maintain - OK so the engine went BANG, but that wasn't down to lack of maintenance or ill-treatment. We've had her for 6 years and 47,000 miles, I know exactly what's been done and apart from needing new spheres before too long there's very little wrong with her. I regard Xantia spheres as being like front discs - every few years you need a new set before they get too bad!

Xac and Paul,
thank you both for your offers - feel free to carry on your Dutch Auction. :)
Seriously, does your engine have a good (silent), smooth, gearbox with it please? How many miles has it done?

Clutch doesn't really matter as I'm going to fit a new one. The Green Lady's final drive has always whined - I really notice the difference in the VSX - and I had long intended to change the gearbox when it came out for a clutch change (suspect it had the wrong oil at a previous change).

BTW - Am I right in assuming it's much easier (in a properly equipped workshop) to swap complete units rather than remove them separately? Leave turbo and exhaust in place?
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by citroenxm »

Yes gearbox was nice from what i remember.. cant recall the milage now. Although the box is already off the engine.

Yes detact the exhaust down pipe and lift the whole lot with turbo aswell out...

Might be best to leave the old turbo on the blown engine. It might of suffered oil starvation and there for damaged the bearings or seals..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
taffy
Posts: 1018
Joined: 08 Oct 2012, 00:35
Location: swindon
My Cars:
x 1

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by taffy »

thats one thing i lernt from an early age is to let the engine idle for few mins after a run to let turbo wind down...saves it spinning with no oil :)
99 silver 2.1td exclusive xantia
99 red 2.0 hdi exclusive xantia..
00 black 2.0 hdi exclusive xantia
99 blue 2.0 hdi exclusive xantia
06 silver 1.6 hdi vtr c5
57 blue C4 GP 1.6hdi exclusive
08 black C4 GP 2.0hdi vtr
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49531
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by CitroJim »

Guy I'm delighted to hear the Green Lady is to ride again :-D
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Le XUD, she go BANG but the Green Lady's coming home now

Post by Old-Guy »

citroenxm wrote:....Might be best to leave the old turbo on the blown engine. It might of suffered oil starvation and there for damaged the bearings or seals..
Good point Paul. Depends on what went Bang. My other half lifted her foot (and wasn't accelerating hard anyway) as soon as the noise started and afterwards the oil level was the same as when we left home and no lights came on, so the turbo probably didn't suffer any oil starvation. I'll keep one turbo as a spare anyway.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
Post Reply