Non Biased Opinion's please

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cachaciero
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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by cachaciero » 12 Apr 2013, 13:40

All that you say is true, there is no clutch to worry about no DMF no cambelts to change there is actually little mechanically to go wrong.The electrics and Hybrid implementation is pretty damn clever and it impresses me as much as the hydraulics on a CX impressed me when I first saw one. Now if one could only graft the C5 suspension into a Prius......... In my research i came across many references mainly from the 'States which indicated that 240K with nothing major going wrong was not uncommon.
I have a mk2 bought from a liquidator one company car seems to have spent most of it's life around London with attendant scratches and dings, complete S/H shows nothing mechanically major, though I have had a wheel bearing that went a bit grumbly. Toys? this is an area which one needs to look at closely when purchasing and by comparison to the Cit is in some areas a bit disappointing but the only thing I really miss is the heated wing mirrors but in compensation the Audio System is superb.
Driving? well driving is different as engine noise such as it is bears no real relationship to road speed, find it far harder to keep to 30 & 40 limits in the Prius than the Cit. Like I said if I could afford one I would have a mk3 principally for the extra grunt better fuel consumption and tax savings.
Thinking about a Prius was a major change for me in the way I thought about cars and manufacturers but having come to terms with it all I have no regrets.

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Post by addo » 12 Apr 2013, 13:52

I've been meandering down similar paths; I love the petrol engine and how it works, how it sounds, but it seems such a waste of the cars I like to own, to drive one sedately down the road and back for a few groceries.

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Re:

Post by cachaciero » 12 Apr 2013, 14:34

addo wrote:I've been meandering down similar paths; I love the petrol engine and how it works, how it sounds, but it seems such a waste of the cars I like to own, to drive one sedately down the road and back for a few groceries.
Uh!!! how / where did 'sedately' come into the conversation ???? not in relation to a Prius I hope.

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Post by addo » 12 Apr 2013, 21:34

The way I often drive, said groceries will be all over the car by journey's end. Just can't see myself driving a Priapis like that.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by andy5 » 13 Apr 2013, 00:47

Can the Prius still manage 40 or close to 50 mpg while averaging 80 mph over some European motorways?

Actually it would need to reach 60 mpg to make up for the fuel cost difference abroad

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by cachaciero » 13 Apr 2013, 11:33

andy5 wrote:Can the Prius still manage 40 or close to 50 mpg while averaging 80 mph over some European motorways?

Actually it would need to reach 60 mpg to make up for the fuel cost difference abroad
In a word yes! based upon my experience (of a mk2) 50mpg is achievable probably slightly more in winter and definitely more in summer. I would expect the mk3 to achieve that easily.
I would say that 80mph is IMHO slightly outside the comfort zone of a Mk2 at that speed all the work is being done by the engine which is only a de-rated 1500 turning out 75bhp but @70 it's fine.
The mk3 with it's 1.8 engine and higher output should be quite happy @80.
The Prius derives it's economy in two ways first from running the engine in an economy mode this leaves "holes" in the power band which are filled up by the electric motors and secondly by recovering energy on braking i.e the motor is turned into a generator and the energy stuffed into the battery.
Unfortunately there are limits to the amount of energy that can be stuffed into the battery per second so excess current is bled of through resistors and lost as heat, if even more braking is required then the pads start taking effect and even more energy is lost via heat :-(
This demonstrates why the fuel consumption varies little between town and motorway driving, in town there are lots of opportunities for energy recovery, speeds are low so the electric motor does more work but overun/engine braking and brakes are used a lot and some of the energy is recovered. On high speed motorway work the economy is achieved simply because the engine is tuned for economy not power any power short fall required for acceleration being supplied by the electric motor.
The amount of energy that can be recovered is very dependant on battery technology which I suspect is why the Mk3 has better economy as it uses Lithium Batteries which can soak up more energy in a given time than can the nickel Metal Hydride batteries on the Mk2.
In general as far as energy recovery is concerned you can recover more if you can increase the amount of time for a deceleration braking event i.e start slowing up well before a junction and using the brakes gently, this is no different to a conventional car if you drive such that you don't use the brakes then you will get improved economy.
The Prius is no different except when you do use the brakes the energy is recovered and to compensate for the reduced engine / gearbox load on the Prius the motor is turned into a generator on the overun to give the same feel as a conventional car with engine braking.
Having said all that I drive mine like a conventional car from a standing start it's a tad more lively than the Auto 2.2 XM I had, driving it around town it's acceleration 20-40 mph acceration is adequate on Motorways I can get up to 70 no problem on the average acceleration lane though if I have a choice of a long lane I would probably use it. I drive at 70 ish on the motorway and have no trouble overtaking anything doing 80 if I feel so inclined. In general I don't hang about and overall it returns 50 in winter and 54 in summer.

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Re:

Post by cachaciero » 13 Apr 2013, 12:00

addo wrote:The way I often drive, said groceries will be all over the car by journey's end. Just can't see myself driving a Priapis like that.
I have no problems throwing groceries all over the car even if it is a Prius :-)

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by Rhothgar » 13 Apr 2013, 13:38

No. 2 Paul. You know it makes sense. I would personally never touch a Renault. Thy appear to be nothing but trouble and I don't believe it is limited to the Turbo.

If I was being biased, I would go with a Citroen not on the list!

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by andy5 » 14 Apr 2013, 02:40

cachaciero wrote:
andy5 wrote:Can the Prius still manage 40 or close to 50 mpg while averaging 80 mph over some European motorways?

Actually it would need to reach 60 mpg to make up for the fuel cost difference abroad
In a word yes! based upon my experience (of a mk2) 50mpg is achievable probably slightly more in winter and definitely more in summer. I would expect the mk3 to achieve that easily.
I would say that 80mph is IMHO slightly outside the comfort zone of a Mk2 at that speed all the work is being done by the engine which is only a de-rated 1500 turning out 75bhp but @70 it's fine.
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was remembering having read an article a while back by two journalists who drove a Prius and a BMW 520d to somewhere abroad, for a comparison of fuel consumption after their readers complained about not being able to achieve the official 65 mpg of the Prius

The BMW slowed down a bit from 80 mph as the Prius wasn't keeping up, and at the end they'd both averaged about 50 mpg. And the BMW is about quarter of a ton heavier.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by cachaciero » 14 Apr 2013, 11:35

andy5 wrote:
cachaciero wrote:
andy5 wrote:Can the Prius still manage 40 or close to 50 mpg while averaging 80 mph over some European motorways?

Actually it would need to reach 60 mpg to make up for the fuel cost difference abroad
In a word yes! based upon my experience (of a mk2) 50mpg is achievable probably slightly more in winter and definitely more in summer. I would expect the mk3 to achieve that easily.
I would say that 80mph is IMHO slightly outside the comfort zone of a Mk2 at that speed all the work is being done by the engine which is only a de-rated 1500 turning out 75bhp but @70 it's fine.
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was remembering having read an article a while back by two journalists who drove a Prius and a BMW 520d to somewhere abroad, for a comparison of fuel consumption after their readers complained about not being able to achieve the official 65 mpg of the Prius

The BMW slowed down a bit from 80 mph as the Prius wasn't keeping up, and at the end they'd both averaged about 50 mpg. And the BMW is about quarter of a ton heavier.
Was the 520d auto or manual? need to compare apples with apples. :-)
The reason I ask because when I was looking at various possibilities a year or so back I could find several manual diesels that claimed to get 50 ish on the motorway, however when I looked at the auto version of the same car there was a drop in the mpg and usually they jumped up one tax bracket.
The Prius never figured at all in the list of cars I was looking at it was only by chance that I saw something that said Prius and Auto in the same sentence that made me look closer at the car.. I bet the Prius was considerably better in any sector that included driving in traffic.
I suspect that in terms of absolute consumption the Prius is very sensitive to the quality of fuel i.e addition of ethanol to petrol has become pretty standard and there is less energy in ethanol so I would expect to get worse fuel consumption using petrol blended with ethanol. Also the Prius fuel consumption is definitely affected by temperature the higher the air temp the further it will go on a gallon, that to me is counter intuitive but it is a fact that I can see 4mpg difference between winter and summer motoring.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by qprdude » 14 Apr 2013, 15:05

What is the Prius, A C5 or a Laguna?

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by citroenxm » 14 Apr 2013, 16:17

Its actually another car on my shortlist and I've apprciated the hands on comments on the car and has impressed me even more. . The 50mpg is mighty good coupled with 5ppl cheaper fuel and 10 a year road tax makes it a fine strong contender.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by qprdude » 14 Apr 2013, 16:32

Is it in the same price range citroenmx? It would be a serious contender with me when I eventually have to downsize.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by citroenxm » 14 Apr 2013, 16:59

For the Prius we would have to part ex sarahs 05 Renault Clio 1.2 one owner from new car. . That's how we get that one. But the Laguna or c5 is a bit washer. .

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by andy5 » 14 Apr 2013, 20:30

cachaciero wrote: Was the 520d auto or manual? need to compare apples with apples. :-)
The reason I ask because when I was looking at various possibilities a year or so back I could find several manual diesels that claimed to get 50 ish on the motorway, however when I looked at the auto version of the same car there was a drop in the mpg and usually they jumped up one tax bracket.
I assumed it was a manual, as this was an actual measured result rather than the official figures

Now I've found a couple of references to the story, though the original Times article seems to be no longer there, but the second thread seems to have a copy

(both American discussions, so a couple of the mpg mentions are in their units)

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/23/bmw- ... s-mileage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2069162" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;