Non Biased Opinion's please

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cachaciero
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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by cachaciero » 14 Apr 2013, 20:48

qprdude wrote:Is it in the same price range citroenmx? It would be a serious contender with me when I eventually have to downsize.
As a very rough figure year for year all other things being roughly equal a Prius will cost close to twice the price of either a Laguna or C5 which would appear to be of similar value, the Prius even at the 2006 mark will depreciate considerably slower than either of the other two.

Currently a top spec 2006 Prius with 50K /60K ish on the clock will go for about £6500 - £7000 from an independant dealer an early 2009 Mk3 with 90K+ on the clock £10K ish add at least £1K onto those prices if purchasing from a Toyota Franchise.

Coming back to the original question it seems to me that if I had made the decision to leave hydraulic suspension behind and lets face it there seems to be little option in the future, then the market is much wider and I suggest more interesting than the Laguna. God forbid that I should be accused of profanity but it seems to me that a Mondeo would be worth a look same powerplant as the C5 with which Ford seemed to have managed to achieve better CO2 figures good trim levels lot's about at about the same price no worse build quality and they seem pretty reliable. Mind I always had a hankering for the Peugeot 406SW which I did like the style off.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by citroenxm » 14 Apr 2013, 20:56

I WILL DIE before I EVER buy a blue Oval!

There was one behind me in a Que the other day.. JEESUS it was SOOOO nosy it I needed ear defenders on if I was driving it..

Its not the Q of leaving hydraulic suspension... I have XM and WANT a CX and a DS... Ive just done about 300k in Xantias, AND they dont really suit my driving position .. Ive been crippled driving "Ordinary" trimmed Xantias.. that being SX and VSX models. Its only the super multi positioning seat adjustment on the Leather Electric that I can JUST manage to get comfey. Xantia seating is toooooo flat for me.

The XM is Perfect. The seat is higher and makes a much nicer seating position.

Proxhall is another car Ill Never buy....

Luckilly, the latest C5 (mk.3 germanic one) is also liked by both of us.. and can be had hydraulically... but they are a few years away.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by cachaciero » 14 Apr 2013, 21:11

andy5 wrote:I assumed it was a manual, as this was an actual measured result rather than the official figures

Now I've found a couple of references to the story, though the original Times article seems to be no longer there, but the second thread seems to have a copy

(both American discussions, so a couple of the mpg mentions are in their units)

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/23/bmw- ... s-mileage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2069162" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ah! so there you have it, not apples for apples, on the articles own admission an Auto version ofthe 520 would have done 5mpg less which would have handed the victory to the Prius.
From a technical aspect I really can't see the BMW's regenerative braking being very effective.
To get serious braking and energy recovery requires a serious generator and a serious battery to sink the current, can't see the average alternator and battery providing either.
As regards the Prius I think both the article and my own experience would tend to confirm that 50/55 mpg is the true consumption and not the 65mpg that Toyota claim.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by citroenxm » 14 Apr 2013, 21:15

Really actually. Even 40-45 would please me. As I said above at 5ppl average LESS for petrol. You get more fuel..

But, anyway, they are a bit further away for us yet..

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by andy5 » 15 Apr 2013, 18:35

cachaciero wrote: Ah! so there you have it, not apples for apples, on the articles own admission an Auto version ofthe 520 would have done 5mpg less which would have handed the victory to the Prius.
From a technical aspect I really can't see the BMW's regenerative braking being very effective.
Ok, but why the fuss about the gearbox? They deliberately chose a larger and heavier car for the diesel engine to move, to emphasize the comparison, when they could have found one as small and streamlined as a Prius which might produce 65 mpg.

My original question was would the Prius average 80 mph and 45 or 50 mpg, and/or can it achieve its published official consumption. I looks like the answers might be no. A Xantia can do that and it's years older and not as optimised for weight.

Add on the extra cost and resource consumption in its manufacture and perhaps the tax advantages handed to the Prius might be questionable

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Post by Eddie Nuff » 15 Apr 2013, 20:51

citroenxm wrote:Ive just done about 300k in Xantias, AND they dont really suit my driving position .. Ive been crippled driving "Ordinary" trimmed Xantias.. that being SX and VSX models. Its only the super multi positioning seat adjustment on the Leather Electric that I can JUST manage to get comfey. Xantia seating is toooooo flat for me.

The XM is Perfect. The seat is higher and makes a much nicer seating position.
Just goes to show how personal preference dictates. I was considering putting leather into my Xantia but can't see the advantage now over the 'ordinary' seats I have in it. I love the low seating position and haven't found another car that gives me the 'right' position more than a Xantia does.

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Re:

Post by Citroenmad » 15 Apr 2013, 21:36

Eddie Nuff wrote:
citroenxm wrote:Ive just done about 300k in Xantias, AND they dont really suit my driving position .. Ive been crippled driving "Ordinary" trimmed Xantias.. that being SX and VSX models. Its only the super multi positioning seat adjustment on the Leather Electric that I can JUST manage to get comfey. Xantia seating is toooooo flat for me.

The XM is Perfect. The seat is higher and makes a much nicer seating position.
Just goes to show how personal preference dictates. I was considering putting leather into my Xantia but can't see the advantage now over the 'ordinary' seats I have in it. I love the low seating position and haven't found another car that gives me the 'right' position more than a Xantia does.
The best thing about the Exclusive electric leather seats is they adjust in every which way possible, making it easy to get in a comfortable position. Flat seat or with the base up at the front, you can decide. I love the electric leather seats in the Xantia, better than an XMs - XM must be cloth for me to be comfy.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by taffy » 16 Apr 2013, 18:15

yep i gota say wen i had sx lx models i bought strong seat covers and put pillows under untill could get it comfy...as for the leather seats they will go any way u want and are heated and have lumber support....defo the exclusive is by far the comfyist

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by cachaciero » 17 Apr 2013, 11:28

andy5 wrote: Ok, but why the fuss about the gearbox? They deliberately chose a larger and heavier car for the diesel engine to move, to emphasize the comparison, when they could have found one as small and streamlined as a Prius which might produce 65 mpg.

My original question was would the Prius average 80 mph and 45 or 50 mpg, and/or can it achieve its published official consumption. I looks like the answers might be no. A Xantia can do that and it's years older and not as optimised for weight.

Add on the extra cost and resource consumption in its manufacture and perhaps the tax advantages handed to the Prius might be questionable
Compare apples with apples. Why the fuss about the gearbox? because generally Auto gearboxes suck fuel and make quite a significant difference to operating economics, it will make far more difference to the operating economics than a bit of extra weight, the only time the extra weight will really count is on acceleration and going uphill but normally that energy can be recovered going down the other side. To really have made the competition a little more equal they could have chosen a route with more urban mileage but they didn't.

You are right there are many 2.0ltr diesels with a manual gearbox that will achieve 50mpg on the motorway they will not however achieve that or anywhere near that driving around town, I suspect that you will be lucky to see 35mpg around town out of the Xant. The Prius on the other hand doesn't make much of a distinction between motor way or town you WILL get 50mpg pretty well wherever and however you drive it, so overall the the C02 it produces is low hence the low tax bracket, although I concede that it would appear that there is a question to answer as regards the published official consumption and reality, particularly if the C02 emissions have been calculated on the same basis.

For some of us an autobox is a desirable feature so when looking at another car it has to be taken into account in consideration of operating costs.

Soooo.. if somebody can point me in the direction of an automatic diesel that will do 45/50mpg in town and 50+ @70 on the Mway and is no smaller than the Prius / Xantia and attracts VED at less than £250.00 please tell me what it is because last I looked I couldn't find one.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by mooseshaver » 17 Apr 2013, 11:57

DS5 hybrid? That's diesel. And alleged high mpg
Sorry if this has already been discussed but can't see on my phone.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by Citroenmad » 17 Apr 2013, 17:02

mooseshaver wrote:DS5 hybrid? That's diesel. And alleged high mpg
Sorry if this has already been discussed but can't see on my phone.
This seems to make far more sense, a diesel hybrid. And economical diesel engine when funning on the engine and an electric motor to help out. Such a better idea than an underpowered and averagely economical petrol engine.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 17 Apr 2013, 18:53

About a year ago I decided (when I was off to see my Mother) to do the drive as economy run, to see what my Xantia 110 HDi saloon could do. I filled her tank up (couldn't empty the boot, nowhere for my tools, etc), reset the trip, and kept within the speed limits and drove sensibly. I live in Reading, she lives in Dudley. When I got back into Reading I filled the tank, and calculated the MPG, which gave me the figure of 61.3MPG, which I was dead chuffed with.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by citroenxm » 17 Apr 2013, 19:06

I KNOW the xantia is good on fuel.. i don'think need to be told this.. there's nothing wrong with my xantia I'm just board and fancy a change...

I've driven xantias for the last 10 years and they don't all suit my back posture. . Its only the leather with the multi positioning that just about agrees with me.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by andy5 » 17 Apr 2013, 23:29

Citroenmad wrote:
mooseshaver wrote:DS5 hybrid? That's diesel. And alleged high mpg
Sorry if this has already been discussed but can't see on my phone.
This seems to make far more sense, a diesel hybrid. And economical diesel engine when funning on the engine and an electric motor to help out. Such a better idea than an underpowered and averagely economical petrol engine.
Well, it is an attractive idea to have better efficiency, but on the other hand what does it cost upfront?

Citroen seem to have taken the view that as the extra drivetrain and batteries cost quite a bit they will be sold in an up market car.

It might be nice to think of a smaller engine hybrid in a modest car, but adding £3000 to the initial cost to save 2p a mile takes 150,000 miles to be worthwhile.

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Re: Non Biased Opinion's please

Post by cachaciero » 18 Apr 2013, 01:16

Citroenmad wrote:
mooseshaver wrote:DS5 hybrid? That's diesel. And alleged high mpg
Sorry if this has already been discussed but can't see on my phone.
This seems to make far more sense, a diesel hybrid. And economical diesel engine when running on the engine and an electric motor to help out. Such a better idea than an underpowered and averagely economical petrol engine.
I would agree that on the face of it a diesel would appear to make more sense but consider. The diesel produces a lot of torque at low revs but with electric motors available you have all the torque you could want so from that perspective the diesel brings nothing to the party. The diesel is inherently more efficient due to it's volumetric efficiency but the Prius engine has been designed to be very efficient at constant speed which it achieves. At a constant 70 mph speed on the motorway the ICE is doing all the work and the car will better 50mpg that's close to diesel figures without the noise and vibration and I suspect a considerably cleaner exhaust.

DS5? yes pretty car but IMHO the drive train is inferior to the Prius and it's not a "proper" auto though the way they have done it does make for four wheel drive.. When the SH price gets sub £10k I might give it look but even then I suspect given Citroens track record with things electric I would still be putting my money on a Series 3 Prius. Even more damning from things I have read about the DS5 the Toyota suspension would appear to be far more comfortable.

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