Advice please xantia vs synergie vs C8

[daviemck2006]

I wasn't really into calculating mpg when I had the 806td or the ultssejtd, but the ulysse went farther on the tank than the td. AFAIK the fiat jtd is the psa hdi 110 16v. mine was over 220k when i bought it and 260+ when I sold it 2 yrs later, in that time only problem was a burst turbo hose whilst towing caravan, which we had just bought new! Dont think the soot ever completly came off it

[rabenson]

How about a c5 estate - they are enormous and the suspension means you get a great ride even well fully laden? series one 8v 110bhp HDI engine goes on forever too!

[Johnny Cogs]

evening! Johnny - i must disagree about the synergie seats , the middle row middle seat is slimmer than the others (i can happily take a photo) not by much , but it is (do like the cup holders and table on the back!)

as for economy - i run mine on biodiesel (£1 a litre - thank you!) , works a dream and has a bosch pump - but i reckon i get somewhere around 35 to the gallon around town (between 50 >60 miles on £10 of esso`s finest which is 7 liters down here)

Hey Buddy... I dont doubt you at all... I think I might just be suffering from a touch of 'dim'! :p.... I've been running the wagon as a 4 seater for quite a while now.... but had all seven seats in last night and, well lets just say I had egg on me face (",)(,"), so apolgies from me for the miss info komrade =)

Can I ask briefly, do you alternate beween bio and high st fuel or do you solely use Bio Diesel?

Sorry for the thread diversion...

[Harlequin]

oh gosh dont apologise! i`ve been running mine as a 6 seater , but put the middle back in a week or 2 back hence i knew the size

30 litres bio and 7 of dino in colder weather , straight bio from pretty much now on - and with a fuel filter : £2.70 from carparts4less , can happily change it whenever (changed within 2 weeks when i first used biodiesel)

check which pump yours has - bosch pumps are preffered ofc (been told i could run straight veg oil if i wanted as its a bosch, and theres a pre heating mod for the pump as well to let it heat all the time!)

[Andy F]

Thanks everyone for you input.

I went to see a Synergie today, and realised they are not quite so big up close and don't think it offers a justifiable space upgrade compared to a Xantia. This particular example also smelled damp and wasn't the well cared for example I was hoping for.

I think I have been spoiled in the past. We went on holiday and hired a Dodge Grand Caravan which, although hopeless in many ways, I really enjoyed driving and the space was ridiculous really. We had 6 adults and lots of stuff and it swallowed it all up. I sort of hoped a Synergie would offer similar space at a much better economy ( not a 3.6l 6 cylinder only doing 20mpg!)

The garage opposite the synergie place had a C8. I didn't realise how much bigger they are. However, I have read lots of horror stories and reviews regarding reliability. I usually take these with a pinch of salt, but they seem pretty negative against the C8. For now I will stick with my beloved Xantia whilst I rethink my options. ( I don't really want to leave the Citroen fold) but might see what other manufacturers have to offer. And as has been pointed out, I know the history and care my car has had in the past.

Thanks again
Andy

[Hell Razor5543]

What is it they say about the devil you know?

[Peter.N.]

They don't come much bigger than the C5 estate (except perhaps the XM and CX) and they are cheap to buy and easier to work on than the C8, my 2.0. Hdi C5 will do 60mpg driven carefully.

Peter

[John Moody]

Hi all.
Just want to add my experiences with Bio diesel .
I have a 2000 (Xreg) Synergie Hdi 8 valve Exclusive...... my second one, bought because of Cruise Control.... (How do people live without Cruise control??). It also has 6 leather executive seats, and twin sunroofs. Bought with 82,000 + FSH. Now on 101,000. No problems so far!
I started using my previous Synergie (Xreg SX Hdi 8 valve) on 100% Biodiesel in June 2011 bought from Bristol Bio fuels. I have never used anything else in my present one.
I also use it 100% in my 1996 C15D Romahome, also in my previous Romahome (1990 'G' reg C15D).
My daughter also uses the same 100% Biodiesel in her 2000 (Xreg) Berlingo Multispace (now on 181,000).
My son uses it 100% in his 1996 Toyota Landcruiser.
My son-in-law uses it 100% in my old Synergie Hdi (now on 141,000).
My brother uses it 100% in his 1988 Mitsubishi Shogun.
All have Bosch fuel injection/ delivery pumps (I don't know about the Toyota).
Between us all, we've driven over 50,000 using 100% biodiesel in all weathers.
I buy 1000 litres at a time in an IBC on my trailer (total weight about 850KG I think). They load it with fork lift truck.
THE ADVANTAGES-
-The biodiesel we buy is made from recycled waste vegetable oil.
-Much cheaper per litre at the pump than mineral diesel.
-Almost no smoke when engine warm, so always passes MOT with insignificant emissions readings all round.
-Greater lubricity for pumps and injectors than mineral diesel.
-Slightly better performance.
-Cleans the tank, fuel lines and other components.
-Washes off your hands leaving no smell.
-Probably very good for the environment (as far as we're told).
DISADVANTAGES
-Very marginal drop in MPG... we think!! Hard to say, because it's so small if any. But running costs still about 25% saving over mineral diesel.
-There is almost always a few seconds of blue smoke when starting from cold. The colder the weather, the more smoke. It always clears quickly.
-Glow plugs need to be used a bit more than with mineral diesel...... (except with the Hdi's. They always start instantly)
-Early batches had brown gloop (Glycerine? I think) which settled at the bottom of the tank, causing all sort of problems. They have now dealt with this problem, and the last 2 batches (approx 9 months) have been great.
-Fuel filters have to be changed during early use because grot and gunge built up from years of mineral diesel gets suspended in the Bio, and end up in the filter. One, or at most 2 filter changes dealt with this, then fuel cleanliness is superior to mineral (depending on your own fuel handling cleanliness).
-Older vehicles' (they say pre 1990) rubber components (hoses, seals etc) are destroyed by Biodiesel. My 1990 C15D Romahome was fine except the fuel return pipe went like jelly after about 12 months Biodiesel use. The leak off blank plug on No.1 injector on my 1996 C15D Romahome also went soft, but no other rubber problems with that vehicle or any of the others.
-Some people don't like the exhaust smell. We prefer it to mineral!
-They say storage life is about 6 months...... which is not a problem for us because we use about 3 batches a year.
-The delivery hose I use to fill my car is a 19mm cheap garden hose from Machine Mart. I still use it, but it is always messy because it's slightly porous...... Yuk!!
-There's lots of talk on all sorts of forums/ media about problems with using Biodiesel. One diesel injection specialist showed my brother a load of injection pumps he'd changed because of the use of ...... he says 'Biodiesel', but did he mean home made bio, or straight vegetable oil, or what? He said the main problem was brown gunge/ gloop gumming up the pumps. I've already spoken about that above, but can't understand how it would get past the filter, because engine won't run when the filter get blocked....... so you get enough warning. There are lots of conflicting comments from all sorts of sources!!

So..... to summarise. We don't know what problems will come our way long term using this stuff, but so far we're 5 happy families enjoying using a local waste product with no difficult problems, and lots of advantages. I believe the Germans run their buses and trains on it (sadly they're using Biodiesel made from oil seeds grown for that purpose--using land that could grow food which could help feed the 1 billion people that go to bed hungry every day!!)

There's lots more I could say, but my time's gone for today.