V6 water leak

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly. ~Author unknown,

and remember this,,, You can be sincere and still be stupid. ~Charles F. Kettering

[CitroJim]

and remember this,,, You can be sincere and still be stupid. ~Charles F. Kettering

And boy he should have known the truth of that statement... Mr. Kettering was a very senior development engineer with GM in the 1920s and tried hard, very hard, to make a viable air-cooled engine for the Chevrolet and Oakand (Later Pontiac) cars. It was known as the 'copper-cooled engine' and was ultimately a failure despite Charles Kettering and his team working at it for years and maintaining a very sincere belief in it. It was seen later as a bit of stupidity to have plugged on for so long with an idea that was far too ahead of it's time and cost GM dear.

The basis to the engine was that it would have copper fins brazed to its iron cylinders and cylinder head to take advantage of the better heat conductivity of copper to more effectively cool the engine.

The irony is that GM did develop a successful air-cooled engined car in the 1960s - the Chevrolet Corvair. The engine was absolutely fine but the car suffered terribly from one Ralph Nader describing it as 'Unsafe at any Speed'. In fact it wasn't - again GM had pushed a car too far into the unknown and because dealers, garages and users didn't understand the need for careful attention to tyre pressures the car was deemed dangerous.

Sorry, I've taken this thread so far off-topic that we've gone from a coolant leak on a water-cooled engine to the problems of air-cooled engines...

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Ralph Nader must have been test driving a 2cv at the time blindfolded. (unsafe at any speed).

thanks for that Jim it was a very interesting read.

at least Ive brought the thread back to Citroens for you

regards Nigel.

[CitroJim]

at least Ive brought the thread back to Citroëns for you.

You most certainly have Nigel and in fine style too.. neither Ralph nor anyone else would have found the 2CV unsafe. Wasn't there a standing offer that if anyone could actually roll one they'd get a new car free..

Truth was the 2CV on the edge, like the R4, might have seemed a bit hairy due to the incredible angles of body roll they were and are incredibly stable.

The irony is that Ralph Nader couldn't actually drive... The Corvair ran with absurdly low front tyre pressures (something like 19psi) and those that didn't realise used to pump them up to more traditional pressures and then the car handled like a drunk parrot. The Corvair was rear-engined which in itself was a bit too avant garde for the Yanks...

[falling-out-with-my-car]

and yet the americans love the Delorian it just doesnt make any sense at all.

I thought my 2cv was very bumpy until I realised that the tyre pressures should be 20 psi not 30.

If you reverse a 2cv very fast then apply full lock they do flip over because of the narrow rear wheelbase
but you can go fast on full lock going forwards and
it will not turn over. there is a video on You-Tube prooving this, it is at the 2 minute 25 seconds
point of the video which is also translated into French over the english speaking commentary.

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[CitroJim]

and yet they love the Delorian it just doesnt make any sense at all.

When did anything Yank ever make any sense? In the interests of keeping this topic vaguely on topic and French I should mention that the DeLorean had a French engine - nothing less than the good old PRV V6

I saw a DeLorean at the NEC last weekend. It still looks a stunner and I'm baffled why it wasn't a runaway success It didn't have XM Electrics did it?

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Jim,

see above for 2cv flipping over, that was close at least it had a French engine the yanks do have some taste then?

[CitroJim]

That's an amazing video Nigel... Did you notice how one rear wheel was clear of the road and how much the tyre was compressed on the other side? ...

[Mandrake]

Thanks for the Diagrams Jim, that's brilliant.

The good news IS.. the coolant tanks appear to STILL be available from Citroen, I dont think they are a silly price either. Also fitted to the 2.1 12v TD Engines too

What do you call a not-silly price ? I think mine is well and truly split now.

Since I've had the car its always used about half a litre of coolant every 2 months or so - it would go from topping up the level to the low level light flickering in that time.

As discussed in my broken exhaust thread I over filled the expansion tank (full to the brim when cold in cold conditions - what was I thinking ) and then drove about 20 miles to RichardW's at which point it then spewed about 1/4 of a litre of coolant out on his driveway, which appeared to be coming from the back of the expansion tank, although no definite source was visible.

When I realised it had been overfilled I assumed it came out the pressure cap release (which vents to the rear) and didn't think much more about it, but after that it has been using coolant very quickly - going from topped up to low level light flickering in only 2 weeks, 3 times in a row. On one occasion after a test drive I happened to have the bonnet open and heard a "psssssssst!!" and could see a fine spray of coolant ejecting from the expansion tank although again it was very difficult to pin down exactly where it was coming from on the tank, but it did seem to be from the back.

On advice from lexi I've been running it with the pressure cap loose (1/4 of a turn) for the last few weeks and it's lost absolutely ZERO coolant in that time. So it appears that the seam on the tank is leaking but only when the cooling system is pressurised - leave the cap loose and no coolant is lost even though the level is above the seam.

Obviously this is not a long term solution, but how safe is it to run with the cooling system unpressurised ? I've taken it for some fairly vigorous drives where its up to full temperature and it has not boiled over or come anywhere near it - the level rises by an inch or two compared to cold but stays below the top of the expansion chamber and there is no bubbling.

I'm assuming that its probably fairly safe in winter but may not be safe in either (a) the middle of summer (b) towing, or (c) high altitude ?

So to the original poster, as a temporary workaround try leaving your pressure cap loose by 1/4 of a turn - its probably better than constantly loosing your coolant and running low! Assuming there are no really obvious leaks of course.

[Northern_Mike]

Nigel I'm sure it's an excellent product for 2CVs

Yeah, the roofs can leak quite badly, and the water can also get in through the vent flap if the seal is old and perished. Not to mention the inevitable rust holes in the floor.. will it seal them?

[Lancaster-c5]

Hi All/Jim.
It was a sunny day in Norwich today so a look under the bonnet was called for.I removed the header tank and found the degassing tank had split around the middle. I rang the local stealer and was told they are £19.50 and will take two days to come from Citroen.
Many thanks for your help ,all thats left to do now is the battery,then mot,tax,and it will be back on the road.
Howard

[Mandrake]

Thats good news. I really need to check the degasser on mine too, although from the white stain around the seam on the expansion tank I'm sure that's leaking too It will have to wait for spring though, the car seems quite happy running with the pressure cap left loose, still no loss of coolant, temperature is fine on fast driving, no bubbling etc. That will do for now.

[Lancaster-c5]

Hi Mandrake
I had leak from the seam on my expansion tank ,I drilled holes through the seam every
inch or so around the tank to clamp the two halves together. I used allen headed bolts as they have smaller heads and fit neater on the tank.A cheap fix.
Howard.

[CitroJim]

Howard, excellent news you've found it It's not too bad to replace but the hose going back to the engine block can be a bit of a devil. Worst job is getting a tool onto the clip to release those...

Good fix on the expansion tank too They really do split for a pastime