Did new diesel car owners see this?

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CitroJim
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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by CitroJim »

myglaren wrote:Surely we will all have flying cars that never wear out by then :roll:
That's what they said 20 years ago :roll: :lol:

I'll lay a wager we'll still be running cars on petrol and diesel, albeit highly efficiently, and the bonnets will be locked and inaccessible.

Fact is, however you look at it, petrol and diesel has the highest energy density by far and there's nothing else that can pack so much energy into such a small space and so conveniently. Petrol and diesel are easy to store in relatively flimsy tanks and relatively, just a little takes you a long way. It would be lovely to think LPG would see greater uptake. It's clean, has a high intrinsic octane rating and is cheap but storage is the problem and it cannot be stored as densely as either petrol or diesel as you'll always need a heavy pressure vessel to store it and filling such a vessel is nowhere near so straightforward as filling with petrol or diesel.

So, on that basis, it's going to be jolly hard to replace petrol and diesel. They've been trying for years and in reality are no closer to cracking the problem than they ever were; it's all still fiddling around the edges of a problem that basic physics and chemistry will not allow a solution to.

There’s an awful lot of blind alleys being travelled at the moment. Hydrogen, batteries, hybrids and so on. Just mere fads with no real future for the mainstream.

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myglaren
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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by myglaren »

Nope, steam is definitely the way forward.


Citroenmad
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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by Citroenmad »

CitroJim wrote: There’s an awful lot of blind alleys being travelled at the moment. Hydrogen, batteries, hybrids and so on. Just mere fads with no real future for the mainstream.
Exactly, I can possibly see hydrogen being more practical than electric, in terms of car use but obviously its not easy to come by ...

Im surprised at how much electric cars are taking off. There are quite a lot of electric cars appearing now. There are a good few Peugeot IONs and Citroen C-Zeros around here. Nissan Leafs are getting to be a more popular sight in Newcastle, where they have quite a few roadside charging points now. One good thing is they have an electric bus service, which seems to be a good use for an electric vehicle. Ive never looked into that but it cant be an all day service #-o

Hybrids, I dont understand why they coupled them to a basic 1.5 litre petrol engine. It is still more efficient to drive a diesel hatchback rather than a Prius/Insight. However, now PSA have introduced hybrid diesels (3008 and DS5), that does make more sense to me. The Vauxhall is an interesting idea, effectively being its own generator, with the engine does not power the wheels.

All marginally interesting ideas, fact is, the original is just too good!

In fact im surprised we are allowed cars at all. As someone once said, if there were plans now to make a small box which people could control themselves with an unlimited speed and powered by a fairly highly flammable liquid, do you think that would be passed? I doubt it :roll:

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myglaren
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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by myglaren »

Top hybrid.


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CitroJim
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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by CitroJim »

myglaren wrote:Nope, steam is definitely the way forward.
Actually Steve, it might well be. In all seriousness it could. Just image a radioactive heat source boiling water... They have the technology for spacecraft and it's not as dangerous as it first sounds. Using say, Plutonium 238 as an alpha-emitter would not take too much shielding to be safe and it would not be run critical, just as a very long-lived heat source.

Also, it's a potential method of disposing of an awful lot of radioactive waste. OK, it would need to be shielded and some work would be needed to ensure the shields were OK in an accident but it has a lot of potential.

Just think, a car that really does run on water and with an almost everlasting clean energy source. It could solve two currently intractable problems at once; the environment and radioactive waste. Now that has to be worth looking into...

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by CitroJim »

I can see a good future for electric busses and freight transport; Perhaps more than likely utilising that quaint old idea of running the vehicles one behind the other on a parallel set of steel rails with the advantage that those very same rails can supply power to the vehicles. Wonder what they'll call it. A train maybe :roll:

The big problem with the electric free-running vehicles is the batteries. Lithium and the other exotic materials used in them are not nice chemicals, they're rare and finite and cause an incredible amount of pollution to extract and process into batteries; far more than the efficient consumption of fossil fuel does. Battery-Electric cars and not clean and not good for the environment, Zero CO2 at point of use maybe but as filthy as a chimney-sweep at all other points...
Citroenmad wrote: In fact im surprised we are allowed cars at all. As someone once said, if there were plans now to make a small box which people could control themselves with an unlimited speed and powered by a fairly highly flammable liquid, do you think that would be passed? I doubt it :roll:
Indeed, it would never be allowed under today’s strict health and safety rules and it's actually surprising the car as we know and love it has already not been banned...

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by Xaccers »

myglaren wrote:Surely we will all have flying cars that never wear out by then :roll:
Image

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CitroJim
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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by CitroJim »

Citroenmad wrote:The Vauxhall is an interesting idea, effectively being its own generator, with the engine does not power the wheels.
It is and may show promise as this is fundamentally how diesel railway locomotives work but there are some severe problems. Using electric traction motors to drive the wheels has great benefits as the traction motors produce maximum torque when stalled so by their nature the acceleration is incredible. Ever wondered why an electric train has so much grunt? That's why!

The problem as always, is one of efficiency; there is a considerable power loss 'twixt engine, alternator, rectifier, control gear and traction motor which is far higher than a traditional engine/gearbox/diff driveshaft setup. The control gear is complex, not amenable to mass-production using normal small electronics methods and faults tend to result in rather alarming bangs and flashovers! They can be a bit dodgy in an accident too with the potential for lots of heavy electrical power causing fun and games. I believe the emergency services already have to take some special precautions with battery cars due to the risks. High voltage DC is very dangerous stuff.

Diesel-Electric trains for instance have hulking great huge diesel engines to overcome these losses and are not very economical which is why railways are far more efficient when they're electrified.

Early diesel locomotives were much more efficient as they used diesel engines coupled directly to a big automatic gearbox such as in the Diesel-Hydraulic Class 52 'Westerns' and the Class 43 'Warships'. They were efficient but there is a finite limit on sheer power that can be put through a torque converter and an automatic gearbox and this was one reason why the greater losses of diesel-electric traction is tolerated and the original diesel-hydraulics were soon pensioned off. Small Diesel Multiple Unit trains still frequently use diesel-hydraulic transmissions and if you listen carefully you can hear them changing gear...

I think this thread has shown that all the attempts to find a better way of propelling a car have huge and rather intractable problems.

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by Xaccers »

CitroJim wrote:Wonder what they'll call it. A train maybe
This coach is one step ahead of you Jim!
Image


Talking of steam and derailing things somewhat, has anyone been watching the TV series Revolution? Some world wide calamity stops electricity working (except in storm clouds and living beings - it's American so it doesn't have to make sense) and 15 years later everyone seems to have forgotten about steam power, or wind, or how to chop down trees (preferring to burn sail boats until there are none left) or diesel engines. Even the 80's post WW3 film Threads gave us enough credit to get steam engines working. I find it very infuriating, or perhaps over the other side of the pond that is the level of knowledge (or lack of) that they actually have, in which case a suitable replacement for fossil fuel cars is a long way off!

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by myglaren »

CitroJim wrote: The big problem with the electric free-running vehicles is the batteries. Lithium and the other exotic materials used in them are not nice chemicals, they're rare and finite and cause an incredible amount of pollution to extract and process into batteries; far more than the efficient consumption of fossil fuel does. Battery-Electric cars and not clean and not good for the environment, Zero CO2 at point of use maybe but as filthy as a chimney-sweep at all other points...
I read last week that sugar can be used to make batteries that are much more efficient and do not have the inherent dangers associated with Lithium.

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by spider »

Is not one of the concerns with electric powered vehicles, that we're only really transferring the pollution to the power station ? , assuming said station is oil / coal fired that is...

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by Xaccers »

spider wrote:Is not one of the concerns with electric powered vehicles, that we're only really transferring the pollution to the power station ? , assuming said station is oil / coal fired that is...
That's why the old dirty coal/oil power stations are due to be shut down in a year or two.

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by charentejohn »

I am sorry for the demise of the 'air car' that ran on compressed air, brilliant thought that the electricity could be stored as compressed air instead of in batteries. Saves massive weight http://www.mdi.lu/english/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good for town work, also compressor stations could be set up anywhere, like supermarket car parks as no explosive fuel storage.

They started out as air only but have now become a hybrid with a small petrol engine.
My cynical guess is that they had to fit a petrol engine as well to get funding and so the car and fuel could be taxed.
If governments really wanted the original air only version they should have helped to fund production and possibly reduce VAT on the cars. As it is I first heard of this about 15 years ago when they had a factory up and running and they are only just getting going now

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by KP »

Simple tip. Park with nose facing down hill. Squirt a good dose of proper fairy liquid into exhaust. Stick hosepipe in it until water comes out. Leave over night.
Roll car onto flat and give it a few minutes for a decent amount of water to come out. Then start engine and let it idle to push the last worst offending bits of water and muck out. Just look at how black it all is!!

I do this on ANY diesel i clean in my family and non of them really smoke except my dads C5 but thats because it never seems to be driven over 2k rpm other than when i drive it anyway! :)

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Re: Did new diesel car owners see this?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Talking of flying cars, they DO exist.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=molle ... 43&bih=738" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wants one, I does, but I don'ts wants the insurance premiums!