AX 1.5D starting probs

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3ps
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by 3ps »

@ miked, no I need all the help I can get. I'm only a trainee expert. I will be checking the battery while cranking before I shell out for a new one...

@ cgaxhatsdfksgddfkjdshfkjh, sounds interesting... I wouldn't be able to do that myself. How many hours labour do you think are involved in doing the head/valves/shims like you say???
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by 3ps »

OK so it was quite cold this morning.

I turn the key, glow light cam eon for about 3-4 seconds. I waited anothrt 5-7 seconds for the relay to click.

The car turned over for about 7-8 seconds before it started to catch.

This isn't normal I would guess.

I don't understand battery workings enough to understand if it could be the battery.

The only variable in when I start the car is the time of day, and consequently (at the moment) the temp. I know batteries are affected by temp.

Is it possible that I have a battery that can turn over for 20-30seconds without draining, and yet still not have enough "power" to start the car?

Or at this stage am I looking at compression issues.

What is the difference between leaving my car overnight and having problems, and leaving it parked in work all day and never ever having a problem????
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by RussellF97 »

Because you have changed the glow plugs, we can pass over them as part of the problem. So I think we're left with three things: battery, glow plug relay, injectors.

How fast does the battery crank the engine? Does it spin it over quickly, or does it sound a bit laboured? If it sounds as if it's struggling a bit, check all connections between the battery and the starter - especially the earths. Undo them, clean them up, a bit of grease or Vaseline to stop any corrosion, and refit.

If the light is only on for about 3-4 seconds, that's too short. I've just been out and tried mine (OK, it's a ZX 1.9D but same principle) and the light illuminated for 7 seconds, engine started in about half a second. After a 10 mile drive, the light was on for 3 seconds. So you might have a glow plug relay problem.

Your starting problems almost exactly mirror mine (see my earlier post) with the exception of the length of time the light stays on. I know yours has only done 74,000 miles, but I know of one ZX like mine (same mileage) which goes as well as mine does now and hasn't had anything done to it, so the reverse could also be true. You might have one or two injectors (or even all four) which aren't pulling their weight.

In terms of cost, the relay would be the cheapest thing to try, then battery - do you know anyone (friend, neighbour) who could lend you a battery just to check if yours is OK?, then the injectors. To have mine done was £192 at Hickleys in Bridgwater, Somerset. Not cheap admittedly, but cheaper than buying another car - and they tested them free.
Phil

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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by 3ps »

Hi,

The battery feels strong, not laboured. I have had enough old diesels to know what a laboured battery sounds like!

The light is only on for 3-4 seconds, but the relay runs for longer than that. The power goes to the plugs for the length of time the relay is on, not the dash light. I only try to start the car after the relay has clicked off. I guess this means that the relay is working.

No other diesel cars in the family and I couldn't be bothered hassling neighbours.

I've just remembered I have a massive battery in a tractor which I could use. I will check it's specs.....
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by CGATCX25GTITURBO »

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=68653 someone else had the same issue.

just run a feeler guage between them first... quickest check.. if your's are all in tolerence I'll shut up :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK3AjvcIIVk
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by RussellF97 »

Sorry; I wasn't trying to teach you to suck eggs. :oops: I was just running through the things to do. I had 20-odd years of diagnosing car probs, it just gets a tad more difficult when I don't have the vehicle in front of me... #-o
Phil

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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by 3ps »

Hi,

I have just come across a lot of valve clearance posts myself so I reckon it must be the case.

I will have to drop it into my trusted mechanic to check it out further.

Thanks! and I will report back.

The car is so cheap to run it is worth spending a bit to fix it.
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by Xantidote »

I'm not sure if it would apply to your car, and you've said you don't think it's an air issue, but let me ask if there's any difference in how the car's parked day & night. I'm thinking here in terms of on flat ground, facing uphill, or facing downhill. Reason I ask is because in the days of the BX (probably Bosch injector pump?), some diesels suffered if left facing uphill, because tiny leaks allowed air in, which allowed fuel to run back to tank.

Good luck with the valve clearances check - relatively simple to adjust.
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Do you pump the throttle when the engine catches? as I undersatand the Xud's glow plugs run on for five minutes if you do not touch the throttle pedal, as you seem to have ruled out plugs check the cut out solonoid lead to the pump for chaffing along the wires length it could be catching anywhere on the engine or earthing its self out and making the engine hard to keep running, it may even be the solanoid sticking on in the extra damp cold weather squirt some switch cleaner in it. Does the engine run on sometimes when you turn off the ignition this is a sure sign of the pumps cut off solanoid being faulty or having a faulty wire.
starting would be getting progressivly harder over time if this wire was faulty (maybe it has the black death).

you could also check the return pipes along the line of the injectors a small guage black pipe clamped to the head but connected to easch injector, if the end cap is missing usually the far right one (gearbox end) you could be getting in air at this point which might account for very lumpy running or difficult starting.
the end cap is black in colour about an inch long and is often missed or forgotten about, these return pipes do degrade over time craking and letting in air into the injectors. the end cap is usually on the far right injector.

just a couple of things you might have missed. have you changed the fuel filter lately (within the last six months) I know its an obvious thing but it may well help you could have a fuel blockage even if there is no air in the clear line before the pump the pump might not be getting its quota of fuel two thirds of which is returned to the tank, have you ever cleaned the tank strainer it could also be partially blocked with water or muck, there is a lot of water in our fuel these days even the fuel filter canister may need drainning of water there should be a drain off pipe on the bottom of it.
Have you replaced/cleaned the air filter recently it could be starving the engine of air these are the main things people forget about because a diesel just goes and goes for so long without any attention. if the car has ever been fed vegetable oil there is sure to be some sediment in the fuel tank causing a blockage it even gels up the fuel filters as the weather gets colder I would recommend changing fuel filters in veg oil running cars about every 3 months esspecially during the winter time at very cold temperatures, there was a big following for running diesels on veg oil not to long ago some are still doing it if it has ever tasted recycled veg oil in its life and the tank strainer has never been cleanned out I would start there.
if you not sure clean it anyway and change the fuel filter to.

regards Nigel
Last edited by falling-out-with-my-car on 06 Oct 2012, 18:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by 3ps »

@Xantidote: no, the parking is pretty much the same.

@falling.... : No I don't pump the throttle at all. The fuel filter was changed just before I bought it.

Haven't checked the injectors....

Thanks.
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

I have parked my xantia nose uphill for seven years and it always starts first time except when the battery goes flat from no use or lots of short journeys with the lights on to work and back home in the winter time.
a diesel battery really needs a good deep cycle charge to be really effective in starting the diesel car can you replace it with another and charge it for a good five days at low amps?
regards nigel.

os added more above in editing.
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by spider »

The post heating if working or not should not cause it to cut out, as long as the fast idle cable (where fitted) is operating.

Post heating on the TUD comes into play if the control arm (Acc) is closed or almost closed and the engine coolant temp is below a certain degree (ECU models I think) or for up to a few minutes at most (timed)

Its mainly to improve stone cold running / reduce potential emissions during initial warm up rather than anything else.
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

I wasn't suggesting that the post heating could be the cause more likely that the post heating would be cancelled by the action of pressing down the throttle pedal.
But the poster says he dosent touch the throttle pedal imeadiately after starting the engine.
I still think it could be a cracked or perished set of injector leak off pipes. he said he hasn't checked them yet.
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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by spider »

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:I wasn't suggesting that the post heating could be the cause more likely that the post heating would be cancelled by the action of pressing down the throttle pedal.
But the poster says he dosent touch the throttle pedal imeadiately after starting the engine.
I still think it could be a cracked or perished set of injector leak off pipes. he said he hasn't checked them yet.
It was more a general comment, not specifically aimed at anyone. :) , I was more or less saying post heating (either dead or alive) would not effect its ability to actually keep running.

Good point about leakoff pipework though if its a Bosch unit. Not 100% sure if Lucas suffer with this on a TUD (XUD no I think given the 'return' from the leakoff's is in the actual return pipe to the tank, so 'outside' the pump) but tis always worth checking these often overlooked pipes. :)
Andy.

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Re: AX 1.5D starting probs

Post by 3ps »

OK guys this morning was cold and it turned over for the regular 7-8 seconds but didn't catch.... I kept it going and it wouldn't catch and then the battery started to die.

Perhaps it was the battery all along????

Anyway, I'll stick a new one in and see what happens.

It wouldn't be the first time I had weird problems and it was the battery just acting up.
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