Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm running)

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lexi
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by lexi »

Quite a lot of stuff on you T and american forums on emptying and filling safely Simon. I am just a bit concerned how much all this atf is costing :lol:

If the box is gonna fail and stripping it out is a no no, is it time to look for a car going along the bangornomics route?
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

As a quick and simple way of doing a hot flush, what I would do (bear in mind I have only given this a few minutes thought) is to get two identical pump units (that are mechanically driven), link them together at the drive shaft, have a simple motor setup linked to the shaft, hook up the pipes (making sure they are the right way round), and then start running the flush, at a low speed on the shaft.
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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by CitroJim »

lexi wrote: I am just a bit concerned how much all this atf is costing :lol:
Me too.. Simon, try to bite the bullet and get the box out for an overhaul. It'll be cheaper and a lot less grief in the long-run. If things are as you say then the 'box will die and let you down big-time with very little warning and you know it'll be in the worst place at the worst time.

Get yourself an old banger for the meantime whilst you get the V6 sorted... Lifting the engine on a V6 is really not that difficult... Rent a lockup and get stuck in. I've done several in the past out of doors on my driveway...

I was dreaming last night I was rebuilding your 'box and a most vivid part of the dream was a phone call to the spares people to order in the spares. All I ordered was a gasket set, a seal set and a filter..

So there. I've drempt it. It's going to happen!
RichardW
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by RichardW »

CitroJim wrote:I was dreaming last night I was rebuilding your 'box and a most vivid part of the dream was a phone call to the spares people to order in the spares. All I ordered was a gasket set, a seal set and a filter..

So there. I've drempt it. It's going to happen!
Now I'm really worried about your health Jim..... :lol:

Simon - offer of drive space and assistance to pull the engine still stands..... :mrgreen:
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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by CitroJim »

RichardW wrote: Simon - offer of drive space and assistance to pull the engine still stands..... :mrgreen:
Excellent :-D Now there's an offer not to be refused Simon :wink: It's a perfect plan :-D
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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
lexi wrote: I am just a bit concerned how much all this atf is costing :lol:
Me too..
The way I look at it is an oil change may help reduce/mitigate any wear/damage that might be going on and in doing so prolong its life to the point that it survives until I could potentially do an overhaul on it. This is what I'm thinking about when I say it needs coddling... :lol:

If I just ignore the symptoms and do nothing on the basis that its overhaul or nothing it could go bang a lot sooner and then all is lost. £40 is less than half what it costs me to fill the petrol tank, which lasts me on average about 3 weeks! So the occasional oil change here or there doesn't add significantly to the running cost of the car when petrol is already so damn expensive...

I also have prior evidence that whether or not its a full cure (obviously it isn't) keeping the oil as clean as possible does actually reverse the progress of the symptoms considerably and for extended periods of time, I got a full 6 months without symptoms after the last round of oil changes considering that the oil was still comparatively dirty after those changes and could have been a lot cleaner still.

I will abandon the idea of a DIY hot flush, it was just thinking aloud anyway, however it won't stop me from doing a normal oil change to see what comes out and whether it helps.
I was dreaming last night I was rebuilding your 'box and a most vivid part of the dream was a phone call to the spares people to order in the spares. All I ordered was a gasket set, a seal set and a filter..

So there. I've drempt it. It's going to happen!
Now I am worried about you Jim :-D How many people dream about rebuilding 4HP20's ? :lol: When I was working in a call centre, for a while I was having lucid dreams of giving tech support on the phone, #-o I'd actually wake up in the night in a panic thinking I was still on the call and trying to find the phone so I could hang it up so I could speak without being "heard" by the imaginary caller on the imaginary phone. Bizarre... :-D Amazing what stress can do to your mind... :roll:
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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote: Simon - offer of drive space and assistance to pull the engine still stands..... :mrgreen:
You don't really want a Xantia with its gearbox missing and engine out cluttering up your drive way and garage for weeks/months do you ? No, I didn't think so. :lol:

If I was going to the trouble of getting the gearbox overhauled I'd also be doing the timing belt, water pump, tensioners, and resealing the cam boxes at a minimum, and given that I would be sending the gearbox away (not sure how I would get it to Jim exactly) I'd be allowing for the car to be off the road for a couple of months so I could pick away at it on weekends rather than trying to rush through anything.

If I manage to end up with a usable garage of my own where I could tackle the job I'd certainly take any offer of assistance however :wink:
Last edited by Mandrake on 22 May 2013, 17:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Ben82
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Ben82 »

Out of interest, how much (extra) life does an overhaul give the 4HP20?
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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

Ben82 wrote:Out of interest, how much (extra) life does an overhaul give the 4HP20?
A proper overhaul would see the gearbox "as new". Which means another 100k miles if the oil is neglected as it was the first time around, maybe 150k+ if regular oil changes are done...(one guy on the forum who did regular oil changes from a low mileage managed to get 200k out of his)

So basically it would far outlast the rest of the car, by a ridiculous margin. :-D How many miles the ES9J4 can do without any significant overhaul I have no idea but I'm guessing it could possibly do 200k if oil/coolant and timing belt changes etc are kept current...
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by isisalar »

Given your present situation you have got to give this stuff a try:-
http://lubegard.co.uk/shop/index.php?id ... er=product" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
As detailed in a previous post, although I mistakenly called it trans lube, this stuff has rescued two Citroen auto boxes which were both showing signs of wear under extreme conditions, the signs of wear completely vanished, the box behavior improved massively,, in the case of the Xantia I got about 130,000 miles faultless behavior out of it after using.
They make some almost unbelievable claims in the description, in my experience they're all true!!!
For £15 quid what's to lose?
I'd recommend it any forum members with autos.
Cheers
Paul
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xantia_v6
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by xantia_v6 »

Ben82 wrote:Out of interest, how much (extra) life does an overhaul give the 4HP20?
Depending on driving style it would give another 100,000 or 150,000 miles life. I am confident that with moderately good treatment an ES9 engine will go for 250,000 or 300,000 miles.

My previous Xantia V6 had a transmission refresh at 150,000 miles, and generally showed no wear at all. It did require a new differential bearing and transmission oil pump due to a fairly catastrophic bearing failure, but that is not a normal failure mode with these boxes (a recon torque converter and oil filter were of course fitted).

I passed the car on at 200,000 miles and it was still driving very sweetly, with perhaps just a bit more transmission whine than when I got it at 60,000 miles. I think the engine and transmission should get to 300,000 miles if the current owner doesn't get bored with it.
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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

isisalar wrote:Given your present situation you have got to give this stuff a try:-
http://lubegard.co.uk/shop/index.php?id ... er=product" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
As detailed in a previous post, although I mistakenly called it trans lube, this stuff has rescued two Citroen auto boxes which were both showing signs of wear under extreme conditions, the signs of wear completely vanished, the box behavior improved massively,, in the case of the Xantia I got about 130,000 miles faultless behavior out of it after using.
They make some almost unbelievable claims in the description, in my experience they're all true!!!
For £15 quid what's to lose?
I'd recommend it any forum members with autos.
Cheers
Paul
I'm usually pretty skeptical of additives Paul, but I've been doing a bit of reading about this one tonight and there may be some merit to it. The question is whether its compatible with gearboxes using LT71141 and I haven't found a concrete answer to that yet.

What models of gearboxes did you use it in ? I see that its actually recommended by Saab (through a dealer service bulletin) as a fix for 2-3 up shift sqwark in the 4HP18 which is quite interesting, although the 4HP18 runs on Dexron II:

http://lubegard.com/pdfs/OEMsuseLubegard.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you say, I'm getting to the point where I don't have much to loose. Hmm... will do a bit more research.
isisalar
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by isisalar »

Go for it.
Cheers
Paul
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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by CitroJim »

Simon, it's quite normal for me to have very lucid dreams and I too dream about work which is annoying but on the plus-side I have solved some rather difficult problems in my dreams... Mine are not stress-related but are likely related to my ME, bizarre as it seems. Another thing related to it is why I'm sitting here posting on a forum at this silly time of the morning. It's when I'm mentally most alert. It's all downhill from here :twisted:

Last night I dreamed of HP20 gearbox ECU diagnostics - see my blog for the reason why...

Ben, my first HP20 rebuild is still going strong. That was done at 159,000 and as of Saturday it's now on 193,000. The owner did a fluid change on it on Saturday.

Paul, I quite agree - go for it Simon! What have you to loose...
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Post by addo »

Err... Uncertainty? :P

At least Xantias don't need Brembo calipers.

Last night I was dreaming about rigging points on an apartment building. Probably subconsciously plotting an escape route in case the upcoming job turned hellish.