Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm running)

[Mandrake]

Well, it's time to make an announcement - RIP Xantia V6

I spent the day at Richard's today, first we did the timing belt on his C4 Picasso - apart from a bit of difficulty dealing with the aux belt tensioner the job went smoothly with no other hitches. Not only did it fix the worrying noise he was hearing it's given the car new pep below 2000 rpm now that it's not running on a stretched timing belt!

Then we had a look at the rust hole on my drivers side sill. After grinding back most of the rust, here are the gaping holes left:





Not visible in the photo, but the bottom half of the vertical partition inside above the holes is rusty too. I know nothing about welding but according to Richard its a fairly big job to fix properly. (Ironically the rest of the chassis is almost rust free and very good for its age)

If that was the only thing threatening to fail the MOT I would consider fixing it, but it's simply the final straw of a number of problems.

While it was up on the ramp I noticed both the lower arm rear bushes are stuffed - the left one is completely split and looks bad enough that it must be a fail. There is also an LHM leak that looks like its coming from the power steering pressure regulator, where the feed pipe goes from rubber to steel and the low pressure return off the regulator whilst not leaking itself has a split in the hose as well. The main pressure regulator is also leaking at the top a little.

All of these own there own would not be terminal and are solvable problems, but then we have the issue of the engine and gearbox.

I'm satisfied that the engine has a valve train problem that is causing the intermittent loss of power and intermittent misfire, possibly even the stumble on acceleration from idle. The vacuum waveform clearly shows one cylinder has a major problem, and only confirms the symptoms. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I know it won't be fixable without taking the heads off. (Both heads, as I can't identify the offending cylinder) It might be a broken valve spring, a collapsed or seized hydraulic tappet, a sticking valve, a burnt valve etc.

Doesn't really matter which of the above it is, it's out of my means to fix it even if I was working cosily in my own garage with a spare car instead of on the side of the road with no spare car. The emissions only passed a year ago by a hair (probably fudged) so chances of it failing emissions are very high, and if it does I have no practical recourse to fix it if its a valve train issue.

Driving to Richards and back today the performance was crap, to put it bluntly. Feels like its either misfiring, has badly retarded timing, or both.

Then there is the gearbox. The gearbox truly does feel like it's failing now. Its done about 6000 miles since I first thought it was on the way out, and a number of oil changes have kept it running for quite a while longer, and relatively trouble free for most of that time, but I'm sure its now at the end of its tether and must only have a few thousand miles left in it, maybe less. I don't think it will last another year.

It's misbehaving quite seriously now, and I suspect the filter is getting clogged up with torque converter clutch debris. The torque converter is quite grabby when it engages (the friction material is probably down to the metal!) and there is some shudder accelerating from slow speed in 2nd gear. The revs are also "flaring" up on up-shifts suggesting clutch pack slipping, and on the overrun when slowing down I have now had a number of bangs/jolts even when locked manually in a certain gear, suggesting low oil pressure.

In short, the gearbox is going to pack it in soon, and has got a lot worse in just the last two months. This alone is reason to give up on the car as I can't feasibly overhaul or replace it. So with great regret (but also with a sense of relief) I am hereby giving up on fixing this car and will not even take it for an MOT.

I'm now officially in the market to buy a car, as soon as reasonably possible - I have about 7 weeks MOT left (18th August) so I would need to have bought something before then. As soon as I have another car and it's working satisfactorily (any initial maintenance done) I would be disposing of this car as soon as possible, as I really don't have anywhere to park a second car.

Anybody who wants a parts car that you can get in and drive home without needing a trailer or flat bed truck, it's yours for £100, as soon as I have another car. (Or soon before the 18th of August if I can't find one in time) While the gearbox is getting pretty knackered I'm sure it will manage one last long drive to its final resting place without trouble, just don't rip the **** out of it on the way and you'll be fine...

There are quite a lot of new parts on this car including a coil pack just over a year old, (worth more than £140) new genuine OEM oxygen sensor (just a couple of months old) worth £80, a new fuel pump worth £60, the injectors have just been cleaned and found to be in tip top working order, the cruise control system works, electric seats both work, CD changer works, (although the radio mode isn't very good) air con works, electric windows all work, the battery is good, the hydraulic pump is in good order and has had new seals fitted, the hydractive system works, etc. It has brand new discs and pads on the rear. The front has two Michelin Energies with over half their tread left.

If nobody wants it I'm removing a few parts (all ECU's, coil pack, fuel pump and a few others) and it's going to the scrap man. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to strip more than that, even though I would love a spare set of wheel rims to put winter tyres on for another Xantia etc...

Thanks for all the help guys, but after 120 pages of grief its time for me to move onto another car.

I am actually very tempted to get another Xantia V6, but there are a few prerequisites - MOT for at least 6 months, an overhauled / low mileage gearbox of known provenance, no engine performance problems, no MOT rust problems, and at a drivable distance back to Glasgow. If you have something that fits the bill, get in touch

[Northern_Mike]

Genuinely sad news, I'm sorry to hear of your woes Simon, much as I take the p**s, I have enjoyed reading your thread and have learnt plenty (admittedly that I'm unlikely to ever use) from it. I was hoping you were going to fix it after all your efforts!

I have the opposite problem. The engine and gearbox are fine in mine , it has 10 months MOT but plenty of other things don't work! You can have it for £300... fix the electrics and air con, it'll be fine. No advisories at all on the MOT. Distance probably a problem for you though.

[DHallworth]

Sorry to hear of the additional problems you've found with the car Simon. It really has been a tough battle with that car.

Get yourself an Activa then get it V6 converted. It really does transform the car!

If you don't get any offers on the car then I might be tempted to buy/swap the coil pack with the one out of my Activa as I've no idea how old mine is so a newer one would make sense to put in it.

David.

[CitroJim]

Like Mike, I'm sad to learn of the final fate of this car Simon but I do believe you're right now to put the poor thing out of its misery. It's been a good innings and we've all learned hugely from your travails on this car.

Do get another V6 if you can as they are lovely. Or perhaps now it's time to turn your attention to the joys of an Activa or maybe you'll think, like I do, that older cars are just for fun now and for the daily grind something else is needed.

I can recommend a C1 for that!

[Mandrake]

I have the opposite problem. The engine and gearbox are fine in mine , it has 10 months MOT but plenty of other things don't work! You can have it for £300... fix the electrics and air con, it'll be fine. No advisories at all on the MOT. Distance probably a problem for you though.

You're too far away Mike, but out of idle curiosity, whats the mileage, what's the history of the gearbox, and what colour is it ?

What are the problems you're trying to fix ? Pity about the air con.

[Northern_Mike]

I have the opposite problem. The engine and gearbox are fine in mine , it has 10 months MOT but plenty of other things don't work! You can have it for £300... fix the electrics and air con, it'll be fine. No advisories at all on the MOT. Distance probably a problem for you though.

You're too far away Mike, but out of idle curiosity, whats the mileage, what's the history of the gearbox, and what colour is it ?

What are the problems you're trying to fix ? Pity about the air con.

It'd quite happily drive the 393 miles back to Glasgow from here

The problems are irritations, for me rather than serious problems. The seats, blower, heated rear window, rear windows and AC don't work. It has a cracked foglight. The CD changer doesn't really liked non-original CDs.

Seats, blower and HRW are all to do with a lack of power at the fusebox under the drivers knee. I'm led to believe this is the feed that goes round the front of the car under the radiator that has perished or broken. A bumper off job to fix it, but it's only essentially wiring patching. Rear windows are broken wires in the door jambs. Oh, and the ultrasonic sensor on the passenger door makes the alarm go off (Lexia tells us it's that one)

It's had the discs and pads done, new droplinks, new hydraulic pump (Pleaides) and some other odds and ends done.

AC works, holds gas forever but leaks it all out quite quickly when used. Probably pipes or condenser that's iffy. I was going to get it tested and replace the bits until the electrics went mad, but essentially they could be replaced while the bumper is off for electric repairs.

Mileage - it's just passed 140,000. It runs well, it'll do it's vmax, needs the wheels balancing as they vibrate at "motorway speeds". Gearbox? I don't know. Chris570, Hydrocobra and Jim know about it more than I do - it was Liam's (Hydrocobra, Chris570s brother?) for quite some time. I know it's had gearbox oil changes, and I've got a load of various bills with it. It works though, doesn't appear to make any funny noises or use any oil. I get guess it must have been overhauled at some point or it'd be dead by now.

If my missus wouldn't utterly murder me, I'd be tempted by yours for spares to try and fix this one, especially the AC bits and pieces and wheels. I've just persuaded her to let us get another cat, that was hard enough. If I turned up with a 2nd Xantia (and a 4th car) she'd go apeshit

[CitroJim]

It'd quite happily drive the 393 miles back to Glasgow from here

Long walk home though Mike

Yep, thus is an ex-Team WFA car so lots of history and good work carried out on it in the time it was a team car..

I can safely say it's not a bad car at all... The small 'leccy issue should be of no great worry to you Simon...

Liam and Chris are not related but have known each other since they were little..

Make one good one of the two Simon

[Northern_Mike]

It'd quite happily drive the 393 miles back to Glasgow from here

Long walk home though Mike

Yep, thus is an ex-Team WFA car so lots of history and good work carried out on it in the time it was a team car..

I can safely say it's not a bad car at all... The small 'leccy issue should be of no great worry to you Simon...

Liam and Chris are not related but have known each other since they were little..

Make one good one of the two Simon

Don't give him ideas Jim! Much as I'd love to see it go to a good home, I don't want to be responsible for Simon being found dead in the boot of a Xantia, when his other half finally decides she's had enough of him living under one!

[Northern_Mike]

Yep, thus is an ex-Team WFA car so lots of history and good work carried out on it in the time it was a team car..

I can safely say it's not a bad car at all... The small 'leccy issue should be of no great worry to you Simon...

It's definitely not a bad car, it drives well, it's reasonably economical - just about managing 30mpg on this lot of fuel, despite letting it rip down a private track that I pass by on my way to work yesterday morning

I'd like it more if the electrics were sorted, then it would definitely be staying. The problem is not the car, it's me, I really can't be arsed taking it all apart (by that I mean removing the bumper, snapping bolts, struggling with electrics that I don't fully understand and can't be arsed to learn about properly). It'd take me a good few days, then I'd not be confident I'd done it right anyway. With my odd shifts and a 4 year old, and nice weather, I'd rather not be getting frustrated with the car. That's all.. If it were September/October, and he was at school 5 days a week, I might have a go, but it's not!

At a decent legal motorway speed, it would make it to Glasgow for less than £90.

[Mandrake]

Thanks Mike,

I love the colour and I'll keep it in mind if nothing else comes up, but the mileage is a lot higher than I was hoping for, it needs immediate work for some important things (not being able to adjust the seats, especially before a 400 mile return journey!) and it is a long way away...

[Northern_Mike]

If you're about 6ft and have a 31" inside leg , the seating position is about spot on I didn't think you'd be interested in it really because of the distance. Wasn't superloopy looking to offload his V6 that's had a new gearbox in 50k ago recently? He's much nearer. .

I don't suppose it would be too hard to rig up a temporary feed to the seats from the cigarette lighter socket on mine if necessary... plug, piece of wire..

Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk

[Mandrake]

Well I'm 6ft with a 32" inside leg Mike

I've heard back from superloopy, and although his gearbox was replaced at 50k (according to receipts) he seems to think that the car is otherwise not in the kind of condition that I'm looking for and seems reluctant to sell for that reason, which is a bit disappointing as I kind of had my heart set on it but I guess its fair enough.

Mine was no looker mind you - a massive big gouge across the bonnet, a number of scratches/key marks down the sides, the outside door trim strip was tatty, the rear right bumper trim broken etc, although the paint work itself apart from the scratches was good with no bubbling. I take it from your picture that the paint and body work is pretty good ? What about the interior ?

Red goes a long way with SWMBO too, who had pretty much demanded that our next car be red and not silver, so another silver car was going to be a hard sell for me to her anyway...

I'm not sure if the seat would run from the cigarette lighter socket - generally they can only provide a maximum of 10 amps (or maybe only 5, I can't remember) while the electric seat fuses are 30 amps! Chances of frying the socket or wiring to it are fairly high.

A better approach would be to whip out the battery or borrow another battery, connect that directly to the connector on the rear of the seat so the seat can be adjusted then put the battery back. No fan or aircon for a long trip would be problematic though.

Still worried about 140k without knowing the history of the gearbox, if it hasn't been overhauled it's just a ticking timebomb...

[Northern_Mike]

I think mine is 16 years old now and probably in much the same nick as Mr.Loopy's but in different areas. The body is decent enough, it's got a broken dog light, but as the bumper would have to come off to sort the electrics and AC.... not much of an issue. It's neither a glamourpuss or a minger. Are any of them? Most are going to be 16 years old or more now.

The interior, apart from the usual slight wear on the drivers seat bolster (not split) is pretty good, complete and no bits missing.

It needs new tyres on the front as it has winters on and they're not the best solution! Caveat emptor and all that but like SL I'm a bit wary of selling you what might be a nightmare..

Oh, it needs work to swap the door lock barrels too... I only had one key so in the hope of getting two working and solving the leccy issue all at once, I bought David's ECU and lock set. ECU, CPH and ignition lock swapped but I haven't done the door handles yet :O, So it has two remote plip keys which work but locking with the key still needs the old key. As I rarely lock it I forgot about it buy I suppose I should get them done!

I'll take some pictures and a video of it and see if I can take it for a run with someone holding the camera so you can hear it go and change gear and whatever. I'd still not expect you to go for it, but you can laugh at it if you like.

It goes like stink though. I believe it will still reach its maximum book speed. I've had a genuine 32mpg out of it this week too, including a couple of high speed trips in early morning and getting stuck in the Ascot traffic for ages.

[Mandrake]

It'd quite happily drive the 393 miles back to Glasgow from here

Long walk home though Mike

Yep, thus is an ex-Team WFA car so lots of history and good work carried out on it in the time it was a team car..

I can safely say it's not a bad car at all... The small 'leccy issue should be of no great worry to you Simon...

Liam and Chris are not related but have known each other since they were little..

Make one good one of the two Simon

If I did get it Jim, I would transfer any needed good parts from the old car, as all the electrical systems in particular work fine on this one, including the ultrasonic sensors...

The lack of power to the fuse box doesn't daunt me, in fact I'm pretty sure I could bodge power to the inside fuse box in the foot well without taking the bumper off. I know a way to route a new run of wire from the under bonnet fuse box into the cabin of the car where it could be patched into the interior fuse box on a temporary basis. Would probably take all of half an hour with a few tools and some wire, so I would attempt it before driving the car home as it would (hopefully) give me a working fan!

Pity about the leaky AC - the AC is perfect on this one and if I knew what bits were faulty I could strip them off...

Jim, is there anyone who might know the history of the gearbox who could chime in and let us know whether its original or whether it has had a rebuild, or at least a good few years of oil changes ? (Chris570 maybe ?)

[Chris570]

I can't say what the gearbox has had as we had it in here for a year. NM can probably give you as much info on it as anyone as if there is anything to indicate oil changes it'll be in the history.

What I can add to it though is that the car really did drive very well indeed and as NM has already put it goes like stink. The gearbox never gave any cause for concern in the 12-15k that we knew of it.

Air con wise I believe the troublesome part on the V6 is the compressor itself. Which as you know is an easy enough job to get off