Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm running)

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DHallworth
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by DHallworth »

Simon,

Tried to text you earlier but not sure if you've got it or not.

I've got one here on the spare V6 engine I've got that you're welcome to try and see if it makes any difference or not.

David.

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by CitroJim »

Sorry Mike but I had to LOL...

Kettering systems. They were invented by the very talented Mr. Kettering - a senior engineer working for GM in the 1920s... They were not invented in Kettering...

Quite possible for late 80s cars to have them although most were electronic by then although still retaining the distributor.. The first distributorless system I recall was on a Fraud Fracas in 1989... Most sophisticated thing on it.

Simon, yes, when one whole coil goes down and it runs on four there is a big power loss - enough to make the car undrivable... As far as I know the ECU will detect if the coil is really unhappy such as having shorting turns and so on and then light the EML...

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myglaren
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by myglaren »

CitroJim wrote:Sorry Mike but I had to LOL...

Kettering systems. They were invented by the very talented Mr. Kettering - a senior engineer working for GM in the 1920s... They were not invented in Kettering...
I was wondering about that and about to Gooble it!

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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Stempy »

I heard a story once about repeated failure of a certain type of television Line output transformer which was eventually traced to an individual production line and finally to one operative who was eating oranges whilst working and the citric acid was finding its way into the windings causing corrosion and eventual breakdown! That was a few years back mind. The only coils that are hand wound these days are guitar pick ups.

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myglaren
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by myglaren »

Stempy wrote:I heard a story once about repeated failure of a certain type of television Line output transformer which was eventually traced to an individual production line and finally to one operative who was eating oranges whilst working and the citric acid was finding its way into the windings causing corrosion and eventual breakdown! That was a few years back mind. The only coils that are hand wound these days are guitar pick ups.
Not sure if he still does it but the guy who used to hand-build the original Audio Note Ongaku amplifiers hand wound all his transformers with silver wire.
At the price they were (£56,000) it was worth it :)
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Stempy
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Stempy »


lexi
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by lexi »

Don't forget them Japanese Master hi fi cartridges that are hand wound with little wooden bodies and dew from MT. Fuji.
Then sold to wooden head Audiophools who are rich through having too much money and suffer from "commodity fetishism" :lol:

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Post by addo »

£56K for an audiophile amp is not good value in my books, handwound trannies or not.

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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

DHallworth wrote:Simon,

Tried to text you earlier but not sure if you've got it or not.

I've got one here on the spare V6 engine I've got that you're welcome to try and see if it makes any difference or not.

David.
Hi David,

I did get your text and reply to it. Thanks very much for the offer, but it was a bit late in the day to drive all the way over and back when we had to go out in the evening. Not to mention its a longish trip for a £4 part. :mrgreen:

Sometimes I'm a bit impatient and like to try things as soon as I think of them but I tempered my enthusiasm and realised that the sensible thing to do was to order one online as Stempy suggested, which I will do. The world won't end if I try the cap next weekend instead of this one. :lol:

Cheers anyway! :)

If as I suspect the cap may be allowing noise to influence the knock retard system, it may be difficult to notice the difference if there is a blatant misfire occurring at the same time, so it might be best if I experiment with the cap after I've swapped the coil pack and (hopefully) eliminated the misfire.

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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote: Quite possible for late 80s cars to have them although most were electronic by then although still retaining the distributor.. The first distributorless system I recall was on a Fraud Fracas in 1989... Most sophisticated thing on it.
The '77 was a G Special, so definitely Kettering :twisted: The '84 was an early Diahatsu Charrade Turbo (G11) and I'm pretty certain that was points.. the '88 was a Honda Accord, it definitely had a distributor and single large coil but as you say it might have been transistor switched from a hall effect sensor - the engine on that car never gave a moments trouble in the 5 years I had it so I never had to trace any faults on it! From memory all it ever needed was oil/filter/coolant changes. (To be fair the engine on my 2 litre petrol Xantia never gave a moments trouble either)
Simon, yes, when one whole coil goes down and it runs on four there is a big power loss - enough to make the car undrivable... As far as I know the ECU will detect if the coil is really unhappy such as having shorting turns and so on and then light the EML...
Ah, yes a primary fault like primary open, shorted or possibly a shorted turn on the primary will be detected by the ECU, that's what you were probably seeing.

However secondary faults like an internal flashover on the secondary side or from a faulty plug lead to ground etc won't be detected as the change in the primary waveform is too subtle for the ECU to identify it.

I was referring to misfire detection where a high resolution crank sensor is used that can actually detect the slowing down of the flywheel during the missing power stroke and thus detect a misfire that way and identify the cylinder - the ES9J4S has this and pretty much all (?) OBD-II cars, but the ES9J4 does not, mores the pity, otherwise this problem could have been diagnosed months ago...

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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

Stempy wrote: The cap at Farnell is specifically for automotive use so should tolerate being strapped to an engine.
I've ended up ordering this slightly different one:

http://www.thetoolboxshop.com/0-646-22- ... -5139.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The main reason being that I was also looking for a relay with internal spike suppression diode for my cruise control repair, and not many people seem to stock suitable ones with diode, including Farnell. These guys are the only outfit I've found that have both the suppression capacitor and the relay I want so I can get them in one order. (They seem to have a very good selection of automotive relays)

Hopefully this capacitor will be just as good as the other one, I can't see why not.

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by CitroJim »

Simon, that's described as an 'Interference Capacitor' so it'll make it worse...

Cruise control duff? Have I missed something?

How do you live without it :?

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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:Simon, that's described as an 'Interference Capacitor' so it'll make it worse...
:rofl:
Cruise control duff? Have I missed something?
Yep, this thread: :mrgreen:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=45265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've fixed the brake switch and determined that the remaining faults are the cruise control relay in the wheel arch and the separate dump valve. See the thread for more detail.
How do you live without it :?
Its never worked since I've had the car and I've never owned a car with cruise control before, so I didn't miss it as such, but I decided it was about time I got it working! :)

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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by CitroJim »

I need to speak to you about that relay.. It's not in the wheelarch on an S2 car... Not sure where at this moment but will advise later..

Have you fully worked through my test procedure to establish the vacuum pump, valves and bellows is good?

ECUs rarely fail and when they do are normally fixable...

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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm runn

Post by Mandrake »

Hi Jim, its best if you read and join the linked thread, all your questions will be answered there :)