XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
Spaces
Posts: 186
Joined: 16 Mar 2011, 10:42
Location: Rarely in one place for too long - Hebridean Islands and Yorkshire are my favourites
My Cars:

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by Spaces »

Rattiva_Mike wrote: There is one particular off-camber, long right hand uphill bend on my journey which can be taken comfortably in the dry at considerably more than what one might consider a normal speed ;-) It induces tyre howl from the inner OS rear wheel as it slides slightly as the rear just get "dragged" round the bend. I can feel it through the seat of my pants going ever so slightly sideways, while the front stays planted. This is, I'm sure, something to do with the softer rear spheres than spec, and the enhanced roll. In the wet it does the same, but at lower speed, and it feels like you are on tippy-toes at anything more than 45-50mph. I have tried it faster in the wet, out of interest (and there's nothing to hit other than a hedge, always a consideration of mine) but it gets all hairy and you have to slow down, which of course induces the old lift-off oversteer. It's all fun though, and at normal driving speeds, it's never, ever a problem.
The hydractive car I'm driving also has more compliant spheres (including the central ones) but they have damping close to the original. I wondered at first if it was this 'rolling off the tread' lack of grip fom the rear due to a little more roll than intended, but as I mentioned the sliding back end was much quicker to start to move in the sport mode - when the car heels less - both on smooth surfaces and rippled. I put this down to the slight negative camber, a little more obvious on the n/s wheel but still only very slight (correspondingly the car was more likely to slide in a right-hander) as there was not even pressure across the tread, with the outside loaded the least.

When the wheels were absolutely vertical a few years ago (or where they should be with new bearings) this characteristic was less marked, although still there if you weren't cautious of camber and surface changes in the wet. I suppose it is so obvious partly because of the highish speeds at which the suspension allows 'progress' without the car being bounced about, and partly because PSA cars are set up to corner with less and less understeer the faster and harder you go - and in the dry, corner so well. Go fast enough and you only have to think a good Xantia through a corner. Equally they are pretty stable if you do decellerate mid-bend.

But the electric cornering ability comes at a price - one which, with less than perfect rear tyres, suspension and camber, can send the back of the car sliding uncontrollably. The same design of back axle is what made the 205GTi such a drivers' favourite, but also killed many over-enthusiastic young people as its short wheelbase gave little time to catch the slide.

We need to remember that a Hydractive or Activa Xantia is capable of travelling and cornering at great speed with little fuss, in the dry at least -and that with the characteristics of the Peugeot rear axle, rear tyres should be as grippy as possible.
PeterN: "Honest John's forum put the last nail in the coffin of owning a 2000- car. Many were still servicable, but CR, DMFs and needing fault codes read because your horn doesn't work - no thanks. All my life I have generally understood cars - until now."
chrisjvm
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Jun 2012, 20:26
Location:
My Cars:
x 1

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by chrisjvm »

Hello Jim.
Thanks for the offer of giving my Activa the once over..
I would appreciate it,when you can.
At your convenience of course.
I've heard of B&L and they're not to far away..
Mike has recommended a couple of garages down his way.
It's good to know there are some decent Citroën repairers .

See you at CXM.

Chris.

PS I've got a Berlingo Van if I can help shifting your Xantia spares.
I would have offered earlier but thought you lived in Wales!
'96 Volvo 855 T5 auto
'97 Xantia Activa
'89 VW T25 Westfalia California
'89 VW LT Westfalia Florida
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49658
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6204
Contact:

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by CitroJim »

No problem at all Chris, I'm sure we can arrange a time soon as I'm currently not working which makes it easier...
chrisjvm wrote: PS I've got a Berlingo Van if I can help shifting your Xantia spares.
I would have offered earlier but thought you lived in Wales!
Excellent stuff! Thanks Chris. :-D Wales is a wish at this time but it's likely a vanload of spares will need to go there... I'll tell more when I see you... It all might then make some sense :lol:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
chrisjvm
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Jun 2012, 20:26
Location:
My Cars:
x 1

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by chrisjvm »

Hello Chris.

Thanks,
I appreciate the support
I have an XM also, but It's got to go now I've
Got the Activa...
Could never get on with the autobox!

See you at CXM.

Chris
'96 Volvo 855 T5 auto
'97 Xantia Activa
'89 VW T25 Westfalia California
'89 VW LT Westfalia Florida
Northern_Mike

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by Northern_Mike »

chrisjvm wrote:Hello Jim.
Thanks for the offer of giving my Activa the once over..
I would appreciate it,when you can.
At your convenience of course.
I've heard of B&L and they're not to far away..
Mike has recommended a couple of garages down his way.
It's good to know there are some decent Citroën repairers .

See you at CXM.

Chris.

PS I've got a Berlingo Van if I can help shifting your Xantia spares.
I would have offered earlier but thought you lived in Wales!
I also have a Berlingo, it's a Multispace, but it's pretty big inside with the seats down. With a plastic sheet down, I could fill it with spares and we could go in convoy!
Northern_Mike

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by Northern_Mike »

chrisjvm wrote:
I have an XM also, but It's got to go

Chris
Do tell me more... much against my better judgement. All this talk of XMs has got me wanting another..
chrisjvm
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Jun 2012, 20:26
Location:
My Cars:
x 1

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by chrisjvm »

CitroJim wrote:No problem at all Chris, I'm sure we can arrange a time soon as I'm currently not working which makes it easier...
chrisjvm wrote: PS I've got a Berlingo Van if I can help shifting your Xantia spares.
I would have offered earlier but thought you lived in Wales!
Excellent stuff! Thanks Chris. :-D Wales is a wish at this time buti it's likely a vanload of spares will need to go there... I'll tell more when I see you... It all might then make some sense :lol:
Thanks again Jim...

Speak to you soon

Chris
'96 Volvo 855 T5 auto
'97 Xantia Activa
'89 VW T25 Westfalia California
'89 VW LT Westfalia Florida
chrisjvm
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Jun 2012, 20:26
Location:
My Cars:
x 1

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by chrisjvm »

Rattiva_Mike wrote:
chrisjvm wrote:
I have an XM also, but It's got to go

Chris
Do tell me more... much against my better judgement. All this talk of XMs has got me wanting another..
About the XM Mike?

Chris
'96 Volvo 855 T5 auto
'97 Xantia Activa
'89 VW T25 Westfalia California
'89 VW LT Westfalia Florida
Northern_Mike

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by Northern_Mike »

chrisjvm wrote:
Rattiva_Mike wrote:
chrisjvm wrote:
I have an XM also, but It's got to go

Chris
Do tell me more... much against my better judgement. All this talk of XMs has got me wanting another..
About the XM Mike?

Chris
Yes, if you're intent on selling it.. did you get the message I sent about the garages down here in South Bucks?
Deanxm
Posts: 3327
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 17:57
Location: Isle of wight
My Cars: Citroen XM
x 87

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by Deanxm »

Go fast enough and you only have to think a good Xantia through a corner. Equally they are pretty stable if you do decellerate mid-bend.
If your going fast enough the last thing you want to be doing in any FF car is lift off in a corner, thats an easy way to get into reverse off roading.
Also i see nothing wrong with the psa rear suspension setup, the rubber mounts have no influence on the suspension geometry no matter how shot they are unless they are REALLY bad in which case they will allow the rear subframe to twist and give a slightly increased 'Passive steer' affect on the original marginal affect.

Tyres will have a significant influence but damping rate can have just as much of an influence on traction under certain road conditions. The greatest influence though is driving style, the Activa is slightly more tolerant of rough handling than a standard hydractive as it doesnt shift its weight through body roll as much but if you pile into a corner neutral or lift off and unsettle the ballance mid bend its a sure fire way to unstick the back end.

D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)

Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Northern_Mike

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by Northern_Mike »

Deanxm wrote:
Go fast enough and you only have to think a good Xantia through a corner. Equally they are pretty stable if you do decellerate mid-bend.
If your going fast enough the last thing you want to be doing in any FF car is lift off in a corner, thats an easy way to get into reverse off roading.
Also i see nothing wrong with the psa rear suspension setup, the rubber mounts have no influence on the suspension geometry no matter how shot they are unless they are REALLY bad in which case they will allow the rear subframe to twist and give a slightly increased 'Passive steer' affect on the original marginal affect.

Tyres will have a significant influence but damping rate can have just as much of an influence on traction under certain road conditions. The greatest influence though is driving style, the Activa is slightly more tolerant of rough handling than a standard hydractive as it doesnt shift its weight through body roll as much but if you pile into a corner neutral or lift off and unsettle the ballance mid bend its a sure fire way to unstick the back end.

D
I have to say I agree with you Dean. I've had, at the last count, 128 cars, many, many of them being PSA motors. I've never had a problem in any of them, despite, by my own admission, driving like a complete tool sometimes in my younger days. Even a 306 with a completely shot rear end was ok - not sure what was wrong, but it was rock hard - seized arm bearings perhaps?, but it was still predictable.

The only issue I had with a PSA car was a ZX that had mismatched front struts and balljoints fitted by a garage. It was twitchy in the extreme. Even deviating from a straight line on the motorway felt like an accident waiting to happen.
chrisjvm
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Jun 2012, 20:26
Location:
My Cars:
x 1

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by chrisjvm »

Mike,
I did get your PM re garages and Pm'd you back...Did you get it?
Will pm you re XM
Chris
'96 Volvo 855 T5 auto
'97 Xantia Activa
'89 VW T25 Westfalia California
'89 VW LT Westfalia Florida
chrisjvm
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Jun 2012, 20:26
Location:
My Cars:
x 1

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by chrisjvm »

chrisjvm wrote:Mike,
I did get your PM re garages and Pm'd you back...Did you get it?
Will pm you re XM
Chris
Hello Mike..
I've just checked my sent msgs and the msg I sent you
Isn't there!
Apologies ....
Thanks for the recommendations....
I like the sound of the mid engined Dyane!
I used to have one of those 435cc!!

I do all my internet stuff on my phone and often have difficulties which may be why you didn't recieve my pm!
Please let me know if you don't recieve one re the XM

Chris.
'96 Volvo 855 T5 auto
'97 Xantia Activa
'89 VW T25 Westfalia California
'89 VW LT Westfalia Florida
User avatar
Spaces
Posts: 186
Joined: 16 Mar 2011, 10:42
Location: Rarely in one place for too long - Hebridean Islands and Yorkshire are my favourites
My Cars:

Re: XANTIA ACTIVA - E CROFTING REPAIR KIT

Post by Spaces »

Rattiva_Mike, Deanxm - as you know, PSA rear beams wear their arm bearings, creating negative camber for the rear wheels. This in turn creates a back end which grips very hard then suddenly lets go, it's why racing cars run with this camber - usually greater on the side which is on the outside of the circuit. Combining this behaviour with self-steering which is determined by how much some bits of rubber move in response to lateral forces is not so clever when the grip available to the tyres varies.

Personally, I like for the rear wheels to follow the fronts in a fwd car, not try and replicate the way a rwd car corners. At least with rwd you have some say over the drift angles.

I use cars which grip just as well in the dry and can be driven at the same speeds on the same roads, but don't reduce the available grip at one end so markedly in the wet. They retain much more of their inherent handling balance whatever the temperature, payload, cornering load, road surface, road foundations, age and tyre choice. VW pioneered self-steering rear axles in the early 70s (Audi refused to use them even though almost every other compnent was VW) and it was taken to new capabilities by Peugeot in the 80s. No offence, but it is a very crude and cheap way of making a car feel to handle well.
PeterN: "Honest John's forum put the last nail in the coffin of owning a 2000- car. Many were still servicable, but CR, DMFs and needing fault codes read because your horn doesn't work - no thanks. All my life I have generally understood cars - until now."
Post Reply