2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

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citroenxm
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My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by citroenxm »

Actually andy (spider) your spot on... thr hdi Did replce the 110 2.1 initially hence why all early hdi cars are 110 models... so any S and T reg 406 or Xantia Will be 110 bhp.. it wasnt till later in 1999 that the xud was fully laid to rest and replaced by the 90bhp...

as for the Xm.. by 1998 production was winding down and it wasnt worth the production cost of modifying the xm electronically to take the hdi so it was left to use up the remaining 2.1 engines... thats my thearey anyway on the xm bit... shame really it missed a cracking engine...
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Peter.N.
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Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Peter.N. »

Xac, yes mine is a 110.

Dickie, once I get above 1500 rpm it pulls smoothly in fact even below 1500 it pulls more smoothly but not as smooth as the XM, the vibration is at its worst at exactly 1500 rpm. It feels amost as though the extra weight of the XM is damping the vibration.

Chris, I very rarely drive mine above 2000 rpm, except possibly on the motorway.

Peter
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by citroenxm »

Blimey peter.. that wont do the cat on the 110 any good if its still fitted. it will soon get blocked up.. you need to have a hard good blast to clear the exhaust out or else theres a smoke test fail at mot time.. the 2.2 certainly wont like low revs either...

still shows what a feather foot can achive.. id prefer a few less mpg and a clear exhaust... :)
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Peter.N.
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In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Peter.N. »

I was referring to the XM Paul, but I dont drive the Hdi's very fast - makes them use fuel :(

Peter
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Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Citroenmad »

Peter.N. wrote: Chris, I very rarely drive mine above 2000 rpm, except possibly on the motorway.

Peter
You might like to try disconnecting/blocking off the EGR in that case.

Even if you try it by pulling the vacuum pipe off the EGR and plugging the pipe up, that should give the same effect and im sure you will notice it more willing at lower revs.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
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Peter.N.
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In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Peter.N. »

Thanks Chris. Its not so much its willingness as its roughness, its probably perfectly allright but after driving 2.1 XMs almost exclusively for over 15 years I'm probably a bit over sensitive. I am perfectly happy with the way the 406 performs (except for the ride) in fact its very nice to drive, it just seems to be a bit uncouth at very low revs. Most people probably don't drive at as low revs as me but in the XM you can, which I think is what gives it its economy.

Peter
Last edited by Peter.N. on 04 Jul 2012, 21:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by steelcityuk »

The 110 HDi is better than the 2.1 providing it works as it should. Faulty solenoid valves, vacuum leaks and MAFs (and new fake MAFs) can rob the HDi of it's best characteristics. The HDi can be costly to fix if it's a fuel related issue but with a good remap they are great to drive.

However you can't get a HDi XM....

Steve.
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citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by citroenxm »

steelcityuk wrote:However you can't get a Hdi in an Xm
Steve.
as i said else where steve. watch this space... we'll do something about that..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Peter.N.
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Location: Charmouth,Dorset
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C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Peter.N. »

I did a lot of diesel conversions when the engines were the right way round but I don't think I would like to try on a FWD :? :shock:

Peter
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Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by citroenxm »

Ah but Peter, PSA design the cars around the engines, and these 8v DW and XUD engines have the mounts all in IDENTICAL places, so only one engine bay needs to be pressed for all engine options! And as the HDi replaced the 2.1, it will go in!
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Peter.N. »

Oh, right Paul, so you just have the electrics to sort out then :shock: Certainly sounds easier than making a Perkins fit in a Morris/Vauxhall/Ford.

Peter
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by citroenxm »

And for original Questions asked... what can go wrong with HDi's???

Well, little does when you consider HOW much is under the bonnet. Its on a Par with a Petrol injection engine in theroy... The injectors are electronically triggered, theres an ECU, a crank sensor, a Cam sensor, fuel pressure sensor and pressure regulator. Fuel Temp Sensor, Mas Air flow sensor.

The sensors in general are all pretty robust giving rare issues if any! Injectors can play up, but not often. Failure items seem to be confined to the Engine "Pump" and the fuel tank lift pumps.

I say Engine "Pumps" as they arent really a pump. They cannot draw fuel from the tank alone, they need to pressured supply because they are actually a Fuel Rail Pressureizer Pump to keep the Fuel rail that supplies the injectors at a very high pressure. Engine pumps are NOT timed by the way. Theres no need for them to be.

A failed Fuel Pressureiser Pump will not show or illuminate the engine diagnostic light. The car simply wont start.

Unfortunally, the items that can fail are the expensive stuff.. Engine Pumps around £100 second hand, injectors around 40 each second hand too... VERY expensive re furbished... Fuel Tank Pumps around 80 quid.

So theres a rough general assesment of what can go wrong... :lol:

So generally the actual electronics are very strong and robust! Hence the good milage the 8v 110 engines achive.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Peter.N. »

Well mine have certainly been reliable - so far.

Peter
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Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by spider »

As above I think that was my thoughts when the HDi first appeared as well, there's nothing wrong with them but the reliability is reduced to not far from that of a petrol unit, simply as the HDi depends on electronics and a selection of sensors to run, compared to a IDI unit. That's not to say petrol engines are unreliable, far from it, just the HDi *needs* the sensors to run.

But yes, they are generally very reliable and strong. I do recall issues with early models with certain pump types though, they would lose metal debris into the fuel system (I think the pump started to break internally) which at the dealer would necessitate a complete new fuel system (pipes, the whole lot) most were done under warranty and it did not effect many, I think one "batch" of one make of HP pump.

I'd buy one though, there's enough bits around used if needed and I've seen plenty of very high mile cars that have never had any serious problems.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: 2.1td vs 2.0hdi pros & cons

Post by Peter.N. »

There is a C5 on ebay with 286k on at the moment. Spares seem to be readily available and cheap at the moment, especially for the C5, this is probably because once they reach about 10 years old they are not worth anything - long may it last :-D

Peter
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