.........but I'd just dropped the engine oil and carried out a full service last week, so changing the gearbox oil seemed a good idea, especially given the very poor (read ordure [:D]) standard of servicing the old girl's had at the hands of the Versailles Citroen Main Dealer for the last 17 years.
Accordingly I went out and bought 2 litres of Total Transmission BV as per the book, and popped out both drain plugs. The original oil was quite grubby and seemed a bit thin - but otherwise as expected.
In with the fresh oil and out for a quick spin to buy the evening baguette ........... Aaaarrrrgghhhh! It sounded as if somebody with an electric drill was in my gearbox! There was a persistent and clearly audible whine in 4th and 5th gears.........
Now the only thing that's changed is the gearbox oil. I saw no sign of any additives in the old oil, so what gives here? The oil I used appears to meet all the required specs - my logic is that a mainshaft bearing appears to be in distress......but why so sudden?
Any help gratefully received - while I've still got my hair left!!![}:)][}:)][}:)]
I knew I shouldn't have drained the thing .....:-(
Moderator: RichardW
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jeremy</i>
They were both drain plugs weren't they, not the dreaded reverse gear locator?
I think there are some posts on here on this subject and Vanny may have come accross it.
jeremy
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No no! I promise.........[:0] No, seriously, it definitely wasn't the locator - nope, they wuz the drain plugs OK!! Honest![:D]
I'm just amazed at the difference an oil type can make. OK, so if I'd refilled with SAE20 or something daft I could understand it.
Mind you, for a 70/80 grade oil, it's pretty thin stuff.......
They were both drain plugs weren't they, not the dreaded reverse gear locator?
I think there are some posts on here on this subject and Vanny may have come accross it.
jeremy
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No no! I promise.........[:0] No, seriously, it definitely wasn't the locator - nope, they wuz the drain plugs OK!! Honest![:D]
I'm just amazed at the difference an oil type can make. OK, so if I'd refilled with SAE20 or something daft I could understand it.
Mind you, for a 70/80 grade oil, it's pretty thin stuff.......
Just had a look in Haynes - recommendation is indeed 75/80 SAE but curiously the Duckhams alternative is hypoid 75W/90S. Citroen put the initials BV in front of their description - I don't know if this is of significance?
haven't a clue what the S means (Summer as opposed to Winter?)
Why don't you think the original oil had an additive? They aren't all black teflon.
If you get too thick an oil in there you probably wont be able to change gear easily. I would have expected the change to have stiffened a bit until the new oil got mashed up so it sounds as though yours is too thin.
Jeremy
haven't a clue what the S means (Summer as opposed to Winter?)
Why don't you think the original oil had an additive? They aren't all black teflon.
If you get too thick an oil in there you probably wont be able to change gear easily. I would have expected the change to have stiffened a bit until the new oil got mashed up so it sounds as though yours is too thin.
Jeremy
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
Thanks Jeremy, Tom. Food for thought there......[|)]
Hmm, Hypoid. Now that has an ingredient to resist the high-pressure shearing forces in the old hypoid Crown & Pinion diffs IIRC. I'm wondering if that's the missing component from the new oil..........although wouldn't that tend to clog the synchro rings?????
Thanks for the BV translation by he way - I didn't know that! Je suis oblige!![8D]
Slime disturbance - a possibility, although the car's only done 65,000 miles since new. I'm tempted to drop the box & strip it.
How long-lived are these gearboxes? Do they soldier on forever with the odd whine or do they have any weak spots that I should know about?
Hmm, Hypoid. Now that has an ingredient to resist the high-pressure shearing forces in the old hypoid Crown & Pinion diffs IIRC. I'm wondering if that's the missing component from the new oil..........although wouldn't that tend to clog the synchro rings?????
Thanks for the BV translation by he way - I didn't know that! Je suis oblige!![8D]
Slime disturbance - a possibility, although the car's only done 65,000 miles since new. I'm tempted to drop the box & strip it.
How long-lived are these gearboxes? Do they soldier on forever with the odd whine or do they have any weak spots that I should know about?
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
These cars don't seem to suffer many gearbox problems judging from the posts on here. My own BX TD may have done 190 000 on its original gearbox, and that box is quiet, but may bave the beginnings of a problem which is a rough feel to the gearlever in 5th when under load. I noticed this first about 5,000 miles ago and it doesn't seem to be getting any worse and I will have another look when I've changed the rear mounting rubber.
Before stripping the box I would try and see if there is any excess slack in the transmission and also see if the use of a different oil or an additive made any difference. I would also have a really good inspection to see if something was feeding into the bodyshell.
In my own case I'm suspicious that the gear change linkage touches something as it seems strange that a vibration is produced which feels very coarse, but that its on drive only not overrun, and only affects fifth.
Incidentally there is oil in my gearbox, checked it a couple of months ago and to my surprise it was full. Didn't look that thin though!
Jeremy
Before stripping the box I would try and see if there is any excess slack in the transmission and also see if the use of a different oil or an additive made any difference. I would also have a really good inspection to see if something was feeding into the bodyshell.
In my own case I'm suspicious that the gear change linkage touches something as it seems strange that a vibration is produced which feels very coarse, but that its on drive only not overrun, and only affects fifth.
Incidentally there is oil in my gearbox, checked it a couple of months ago and to my surprise it was full. Didn't look that thin though!
Jeremy
I always use Castrol VMX80 which is a 75/80 oil.
I also always use Nulon G-70 additive and all of the boxes in our cars are as smooth as silk.
My bet is that if you've got funny noises, either you had a bearing running on sludge in the bearings which the new stuff has washed out (highly unlikely but not impossible) or you've boo-booed when you put the oil in.
I think yours is a BX Manual isn't it? In which case it should be filled via the level hole in the end of the gearbox until the oil starts to dribble out. This is anywhere between 1.8 to 2.1 litres.
Is this where you filled it from, and did it start to dribble from the level hole?
If it's an auto, then a whole new set of circumstances come into it.
Alan S
I also always use Nulon G-70 additive and all of the boxes in our cars are as smooth as silk.
My bet is that if you've got funny noises, either you had a bearing running on sludge in the bearings which the new stuff has washed out (highly unlikely but not impossible) or you've boo-booed when you put the oil in.
I think yours is a BX Manual isn't it? In which case it should be filled via the level hole in the end of the gearbox until the oil starts to dribble out. This is anywhere between 1.8 to 2.1 litres.
Is this where you filled it from, and did it start to dribble from the level hole?
If it's an auto, then a whole new set of circumstances come into it.
Alan S
Ahhhhhhhh! Alan, I think I see a glimmer. It's manual BTW:
You say '......fill until oil starts to dribble out'. However, my Frenchie manual says insert 1.8 litres ONLY and don't overfill it or the wrath of God Himself will descend upon vous and your maison.....!!!!!
When I drained the box, certainly more oil then 1.8 litres came out - but of course I didn't want to blow the driveshaft oil seals - so I followed the manual. I suspect I may have a slightly rough bearing that's no longer running in its accustomed oil bath and is therefore humming to itself.
Are you CERTAIN about the 'dribbling' (er, if you'll excuse any possible double-entendres) because I can't find any reference to that method of filling.............. Y'see, I made the classic mistake of reading the manual FIRST! [:D]
Cheers, Mon Ami - Hopefully........[:)]
You say '......fill until oil starts to dribble out'. However, my Frenchie manual says insert 1.8 litres ONLY and don't overfill it or the wrath of God Himself will descend upon vous and your maison.....!!!!!
When I drained the box, certainly more oil then 1.8 litres came out - but of course I didn't want to blow the driveshaft oil seals - so I followed the manual. I suspect I may have a slightly rough bearing that's no longer running in its accustomed oil bath and is therefore humming to itself.
Are you CERTAIN about the 'dribbling' (er, if you'll excuse any possible double-entendres) because I can't find any reference to that method of filling.............. Y'see, I made the classic mistake of reading the manual FIRST! [:D]
Cheers, Mon Ami - Hopefully........[:)]
Linegeist -
AlanS - & I - are CERTAIN that the oil level should be up to barely dribble from the filler/level plug - on gearbox end housing inside wheelarch.
No consequences if it does in fact dribble - or flow slightly - showing a bit of overfill - it's not THAT sensitive [:p]
The problem with overfilling the box is the input shaft oil seal becoming pressurerised - by the weight of the oil level. Some oil would then seep out along the input axle - possibly reaching the clutch - or at least give messy drips from box.
Any bearing would hum if running dry with load.
AlanS - & I - are CERTAIN that the oil level should be up to barely dribble from the filler/level plug - on gearbox end housing inside wheelarch.
No consequences if it does in fact dribble - or flow slightly - showing a bit of overfill - it's not THAT sensitive [:p]
The problem with overfilling the box is the input shaft oil seal becoming pressurerised - by the weight of the oil level. Some oil would then seep out along the input axle - possibly reaching the clutch - or at least give messy drips from box.
Any bearing would hum if running dry with load.
There have been a number of posts from people who have found that there was very little oil in the gearbox, and while I'm sure they have all topped up correctly, none claim that it has made the box quieter or change better. I therefore suggest that noise wise these gearboxes are not very sensitive to oil level.
Jeremy
Jeremy
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jeremy</i>
There have been a number of posts from people who have found that there was very little oil in the gearbox, and while I'm sure they have all topped up correctly, none claim that it has made the box quieter or change better. I therefore suggest that noise wise these gearboxes are not very sensitive to oil level.
Jeremy
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.......it made 2 of ours quieter & change better.
My CX a few years back that was fortunate enough to have a "specialist" give it the magic touch by leaving me with extremely low oil level, was a real pain to try & find the noise in to the extent that the noise used to alter if you touched the gear lever; then again, when you've just paid megabucks for a service you do expect that this would have been done & not guessed at.
I still am of the opinion on this one that I would dump the new oil & replace with a fresh batch & definitely include an additive.
Don't like engine additives but gearbox ones are magic.....and yes, I am sure about the potential automotive prostrate problem; let it dribble!![:D][:D]
Alan S [:o)]
Alan S
There have been a number of posts from people who have found that there was very little oil in the gearbox, and while I'm sure they have all topped up correctly, none claim that it has made the box quieter or change better. I therefore suggest that noise wise these gearboxes are not very sensitive to oil level.
Jeremy
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.......it made 2 of ours quieter & change better.
My CX a few years back that was fortunate enough to have a "specialist" give it the magic touch by leaving me with extremely low oil level, was a real pain to try & find the noise in to the extent that the noise used to alter if you touched the gear lever; then again, when you've just paid megabucks for a service you do expect that this would have been done & not guessed at.
I still am of the opinion on this one that I would dump the new oil & replace with a fresh batch & definitely include an additive.
Don't like engine additives but gearbox ones are magic.....and yes, I am sure about the potential automotive prostrate problem; let it dribble!![:D][:D]
Alan S [:o)]
Alan S