More silly C5 questions

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

cachaciero wrote:Would be interested to hear the views of anybody who really knows the law in this area.
I certainly don't, but if you are not the first keeper, then "purchased in good faith" would be a starting point for defence against a prosecution. Ancillary to this would be the need to retrodate any ECU overwrites.

As to Wayne's comments - the items are under-engineered or prematurely introduced to the marketplace - that is the problem. They too frequently do not mesh suitably with a real world maintenance (and neglect!) schedule for peoples' cars. It is not reasonable to pass the buck to consumers for a lack of effective bureaucratic supervision in the making of regulations. Although, considering the first world's enthusiastic uptake of obesity and related illnesses, perhaps less cars and more walking/cycling would be a good thing! :shock:
Monkeyfeet
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 353
Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 14:37
Location: Beautiful Bedfordshire.
My Cars: C5:Hatch & an Esatate. Real cruisemobiles.
x 2

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by Monkeyfeet »

Some excellent thoughts re fap removal. Agree that it has been covered in another thread too. But just as some questions have been raised here - I've downloaded the new mot requirements and checked the smoke regs in particular:

http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/d ... guides.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Personally speaking it settled any qualms I had about smoke tests (especially for pre 2008 cars). Road stops and C & U regs you ask? Again personally ( and there is NO offence meant here to members checking this situation out :-D ), I just can't really see this as a real world roadside worry. (not unless you're in a generally badly maintained car / real belcher / decat - petrol, or running red diesel, anyway)

As to everything there for a reason - well, some spot on points made re ill-thought legislation and badly designed technology here - so yes it's there for a reason , just a really poor reason. Also it's much much easier (and almost free) to remove than it is to maintain. I know, I mistakenly spent £500 on new filter, filter ecu, fluid and fitting on it's first service after buying. ( I know it would have been cheaper if done myself - I was green then). Now the engine runs better, improved pick-up and economy, so the question ( to me, that is ) is why keep FAP, not why get rid of it :lol:
XantiaTD's(all gone). BXGTi, sold (sob). C5 2.2Hdi SE Exc Hatch. C5 2.2 Estate auto. Xsara Hdi estate. Yam YZF750, Zoom. GSX-S750, mmm.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by citroenxm »

just to add.. im not against removal... was just concerened how "the modified" car would get through the new mot regs... thats all.. id far far still rather a 2.0i 8v and have a tuning box.. hasnt hurt my xantia in 40k and now at 204k...

still far far less to go wrong on the 8v..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by Peter.N. »

I would rather have a 2.0 Hdi without a tuning box but I got this one by default. Fuel consumption is my main concern so if it does much less than the 60mpg I get from the 406 it will be on its way.

Peter
Monkeyfeet
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 353
Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 14:37
Location: Beautiful Bedfordshire.
My Cars: C5:Hatch & an Esatate. Real cruisemobiles.
x 2

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by Monkeyfeet »

60? Wow that's really good. Do any C5's get anywhere near that? ( Best ever from the 2.2 was 50.5mpg, and I was pleased with that!)
XantiaTD's(all gone). BXGTi, sold (sob). C5 2.2Hdi SE Exc Hatch. C5 2.2 Estate auto. Xsara Hdi estate. Yam YZF750, Zoom. GSX-S750, mmm.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by citroenxm »

f n hell peter.. no chance.. they average 40 generally... 50 as above is a stunning figure too...
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
cachaciero
Posts: 1407
Joined: 13 Apr 2009, 07:24
Location: West Sussex U.K
My Cars:
x 9

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by cachaciero »

Peter.N. wrote:I would rather have a 2.0 Hdi without a tuning box but I got this one by default. Fuel consumption is my main concern so if it does much less than the 60mpg I get from the 406 it will be on its way.

Peter
It will even on a manual box do considerably less than 60mpg (actually surprised that you get 60 out of a 406 ). I don't have a 2.2 on a manual box so I can only estimate based upon a summation of much of what I have read here and in other places which is manual gearbox fap less you might on a level road and following wind get low fifties much of the time probably only high forties.

At 150K it's coming up to new FAP time, (you have some indication of that) the inlet manifold and swirl valves are probably well choked with carbon, the rest is probably good. You could do all the work required to resolve these issues, add a tuning box / re-map and end up with a very nice engine. far better than stock but I still don't believe you would get 60mpg out of it, there is far to much wrong with some of the basic design constraints.

cachaciero
2006 Toyota Prius T Spirit
2001 2.2 C5 Exclusive SE
1996 XM 2.1 TD Auto VSX
1995 XM 2.1 TD Auto SX died @ 140K
1987 CX 2.5 Gti Turbo II dead
1984 Ford Scorpio
1981 CX 2.4 Pallas Auto
Renault 21
1220 GS Club
Rover P6 2000TC
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by citroenxm »

cachaciero wrote:
It will even on a manual box do considerably less than 60mpg (actually surprised that you get 60 out of a 406 ). I don't have a 2.2 on a manual box so I can only estimate based upon a summation of much of what I have read here and in other places which is manual gearbox fap less you might on a level road and following wind get low fifties much of the time probably only high forties.

At 150K it's coming up to new FAP time, (you have some indication of that) the inlet manifold and swirl valves are probably well choked with carbon, the rest is probably good. You could do all the work required to resolve these issues, add a tuning box / re-map and end up with a very nice engine. far better than stock but I still don't believe you would get 60mpg out of it, there is far to much wrong with some of the basic design constraints.

cachaciero
Phew, got that bit right then when I said around 40mpg... It amazes me really, that the C5 has all this modern direct injection wizzardry stuff on it and ECU's, yet a 1991 XM 2.1 TD indirect injection Manual does more at 45mpg plug EASY...

I guess the weight of the C5 plus the FAP rubbish knocks the MPG down on them..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by Peter.N. »

I regularly get 60+ mpg on any reasonable length journey, the overall average for the last 6,000+ miles is 54.4 mpg as recorded on the computer but I do live in a rural area and generally don't drive much over 60 mph, I get 50+ from the XM again on a longish journey, up to 55mpg when we go to the north of Scotland. so I think it depends on how and where you drive.

Peter
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by Peter.N. »

Paul. I thought I was doing you a favour by loosing £100 on the deal, I would like to let you have it for free but I can't afford it - pensioner and all that.

Peter
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by KennyW »

Hi Guys,

With regards to the law please don't worry as there are no offences with regards to this re construction and use act.

If there is anything its the insurance bunch you may have to which out for ie modifications ( i hope i've not opened a can of worms here)

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by citroenxm »

Peter.N. wrote:Paul. I thought I was doing you a favour by loosing £100 on the deal, I would like to let you have it for free but I can't afford it - pensioner and all that.

Peter
peter... i didnt expect anything for free.. but preference over a scrap man..if we can prehaps save your last one then later in the year that be nice..

let me clean that up... id GLADLY give you 200 for one of them.. preferbly the green one.. :wink:
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Citroenmad
Posts: 8125
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
Location: Northeast
My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
x 110

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by Citroenmad »

citroenxm wrote:The C5 system is a LONGER life system, its a newer LDS fluid, NOT compatible with the Xantia/XM system. Spheres are double diaphram, and also last well into 100k plus, unless faulty.

The C5 has an automatic height lowering system that lowers the car at speed.. though Im NOT sure if its SX upwards or just exclusive...
All C5s have hydractive, from LX to Exclsuive SE, which lowers the car above (something like) 68mph on a decent road by about 15mm rear and 11mm front.It also raises the car on rough roads at lower speeds to save the underside, this does work as mine does it over the bad speed bumps around here.

Only the 2.2HDi diesel has H3+, the rest have normal H3 without the sport function and extra spheres. 2.0HDi 90 & 110, 1.6HDi 110 and 2.0HDi 138 are all H3.

Congratulations on your purchase Peter, though you seemed to get off to a rocky start with it. I would guess that a £300 C5 must require some work though?
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: More silly C5 questions

Post by Peter.N. »

Primaraly a new set of tyres now fitted also the problem with the battery discharging in a couple of days, now solved, properly fitting the front bumper apron assembly which had been bodged, also now done and the removal of a couple of nasty dents in the tailgate, looks as though it was done being pushed, I have got them out as best I can without the risk of damaging the paint, so now looks and drives quite nicely - apart from the fuel consumption.

Peter
Post Reply