A few Xantia HDI questions.

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Fenderblender
Posts: 6
Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 09:56
Location:
My Cars:

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by Fenderblender »

OK I'm new here so forgive me if this is in the wrong place and feel free to move it but I need advice.

I have a 1.8i 16V Xantia Forte on a W (2000) plate which has A/C and have been suffering fan problems too for some time. Mainly that they have not been coming on when they should and the car is starting to overheat when stationary and I have now reached the point where only one is working briefly if I clout the hub where the motor is with a screwdriver.I have had the car into the local garage several times for this problem and spent too much on it already but I'm now considering on my limited budget replacing the primary fan (left one as viewed fron front) with a new one, having the garage fit it and move the present misbehaving one to the right side which I think is only used as a secondary booster until I can afford another.
I have been quoted £102 online for a brand new one which seems worth it when 2nd hand ones are being quoted at £80.
The local garage demonstrated to me (after many hours of labour charges) the intermittent nature of both fans and how if "tapped" in the right place they would spin up, their explanation being the bushes on the motors which start the fans spinning are shot and so not doing their job .
To my mind that would rule out the relays being faulty also as the fans would alter speeds etc when actually spinning?
Therefore the question is, what is the right thing to do?
My A/C is still functioning but I think it is due a recharge, my knowledge is limited about mechanics as is my budget and I'm pretty hopeless at DIY but i need to stop the car attempting to overheat before it does some real damage.My only defence from that just now is to open the windows put the heater to full and whack on the blower on full which will hold the temp around 100.The car runs happily at around 80 when moving so the culprit looks to be the non functioning cooler fans.
Can anyone who knows about the cooling fan operation advise me?
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by citronut »

i dont belive you can constantly check your speed accurately using a sat nav, because you would need to keep at exactly the same speed with no fluctuation's what so ever over a prolonged distance,

regards malcolm
Stepto1
Posts: 349
Joined: 10 Oct 2010, 22:37
Location: Plymouth/Nottingham
My Cars:

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by Stepto1 »

I think the last post may have been for another topic?

Modern sat navs update speed about every half second.

GPS is used by the military to check actual speed travelled as its considered the most accurate way.

I only use it to measure the difference between speed shown on the speedo and real speed.


After this I just adjust it in my head. Eg, if my speedo shows 80mph, I know I'm doing 72mph.
Xantia SX 1.9TD Gone to the breakers
Xantia LX 2.0HDI Taxed and MOT'd at last!
Xantia 1.8 16V SX On loan to brother-in-law
Sportrack off road toy
Series One Land Rover
Thundercat race boat
User avatar
Xaccers
Posts: 7654
Joined: 07 Feb 2007, 23:46
Location: Milling around Milton Keynes
My Cars:
x 184

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by Xaccers »

Military GPS is also much more accurate than civilian GPS
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)

DIY sphere tool
User avatar
DickieG
Monaco's youngest playboy
Posts: 4877
Joined: 25 Nov 2006, 09:15
Location: Buckinghamshire
My Cars:
x 38

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by DickieG »

Xac wrote:Military GPS is also much more accurate than civilian GPS
Just as well really :lol:

Having tested Satnav directly alongside calibrated speedo's it's pretty accurate within a couple of mph recording speed, try a couple of Satnav's at the same time and you will invariably notice a slight variation in the displayed speed.
13 Ram 1500 Hemi
14 BMW 535D Tourer
19 BMW i3s
06 C3 Desire 1.4
72 DS 21 EFi Pallas BVH
Stepto1
Posts: 349
Joined: 10 Oct 2010, 22:37
Location: Plymouth/Nottingham
My Cars:

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by Stepto1 »

All gps receivers are as accurate as the signal they receive.

The inaccuracies that we're imposed by the Americans have now been removed.

I've seen surveys conducted using gps that are accurate to 2mm.

p.s. The gps systems used by the military these days are 'off the shelf' items as these are more accurate then a lot of the old, out of date kit the MOD used and is a hell of a lot cheaper!
Xantia SX 1.9TD Gone to the breakers
Xantia LX 2.0HDI Taxed and MOT'd at last!
Xantia 1.8 16V SX On loan to brother-in-law
Sportrack off road toy
Series One Land Rover
Thundercat race boat
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by addo »

Both cooling fans operate at once. They are either both off, both slow or both fast. There is no "primary/secondary" arrangement.

If speeds of operation, or actual operation at all, vary from one to the next it is a result of either poor supply of power to the fan or internal issues with the electric motor.

You do not need to remove the bumper etc to get the fans out if a 10mm socket is modified to have hexagonal flats ground on its outside edge at the butt end. It may then be turned with a combination spanner to loosen the three nuts - fiddly, but better than flicking the bumper off.

I don't understand why cooling fan motors are so dear; they are a simple motor and no funny ingredients - yet cost more than a starter! Some of them wear out the brushes - hence poor electrical contact is made inside the motor. Others have bushing issues, and the rotating centre shaft gets bound up which gives it trouble getting started at the lower speed. Both are quite fixable for a good extra life when dismantled and the cause repaired, but possibly not amateur territory. External treatments like penetrating oil or a clout with hammer, are very short term remedies...

AC will work if the gas pressure is adequate; it switches off if the motor gets too hot (risk of superheating the gas) or pressure drops below a minimum level. If the system loses positive pressure completely, components will frequently degrade from the lubricating oil going off.
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

Stepto1 wrote:...The inaccuracies that we're imposed by the Americans have now been removed.
I was flabbergasted with the Google/Android GPS accuracy - it seems to work way better than my Garmin!
Stepto1
Posts: 349
Joined: 10 Oct 2010, 22:37
Location: Plymouth/Nottingham
My Cars:

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by Stepto1 »

My cooling fans still aren't working either. Changed relays so expect the motors are both duff.

Got a couple in the garage off a series 1. Will test them and see if they can be swapped if they do work.

My a/c is excellent, really surprised how good. The cooling fans don't come on when it's turned on.

Luckily, being an HDI it doesn't seem to mind, yet.....

My 1.8 16V had its fans on any time it wasn't at high speed, the heater was great! So quick to warm up!

Re smart phones and gps. Many people are quite snobby about using a phone as a gps when in fact they are often more accurate and quicker then most handheld gps units. The old Garmin fore-trax I bought 5 years ago is still for sale now and has not been updated at all!!
Xantia SX 1.9TD Gone to the breakers
Xantia LX 2.0HDI Taxed and MOT'd at last!
Xantia 1.8 16V SX On loan to brother-in-law
Sportrack off road toy
Series One Land Rover
Thundercat race boat
Stepto1
Posts: 349
Joined: 10 Oct 2010, 22:37
Location: Plymouth/Nottingham
My Cars:

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by Stepto1 »

Just had a quick look on eBay. Now I don't know the difference between engines and ages but there are a pair of fans off a 1.9TD for 20 quid! Look the same. Could perhaps be removed and fitted to a later model?
Xantia SX 1.9TD Gone to the breakers
Xantia LX 2.0HDI Taxed and MOT'd at last!
Xantia 1.8 16V SX On loan to brother-in-law
Sportrack off road toy
Series One Land Rover
Thundercat race boat
Fenderblender
Posts: 6
Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 09:56
Location:
My Cars:

Re: A few Xantia HDI questions.

Post by Fenderblender »

Thanks for the info guys my fans seem to have always operated at different speeds varying due to engine temp, well at least they did!
Since this problem started to rear its ugly head then neither of them will operate reliably without intervention by me.Just when I think they are working again they decide to pack in and I see the temp climbing when stuck in traffic.
The engine temp will climb above 90 and then you here a click as the engine note changes briefly and if I'm lucky then the offside fan will kick in but more often now it doesn't unless I'm there tapping it.If the temp rises further it will speed up provided it is working until engine temp reaches normal again.The nearside fan used to join in with some further prodding at this point but has now packed in all together.
As soon as I get moving again everything returns to normal 80 degrees.
I have today arranged for my local garage to move the offside fan to the nearside as that one operates occasionally and fit a new one to the offside.
My reasoning behind this was to prevent risk of the engine overheating and causing severe damage as with this fan functioning correctly at least this danger is removed.The dodgey one left will be replaced when I can afford another new one, I was quoted £122 plus VAT by Citroen Glasgow but my local guy reckons he can do better than that (why are they so ridiculously expensive?) and I will get my A/C recharged before the summer arrives (I have seen offers before for a £50 deal so hopefully will pick one up somewhere).
If as you say the operation and speed of the fans should always be the same then they must have been going wrong for some time, when I first had the car they would even keep running after I got out and walked away which they have long ceased to do.
Anyway thanks for the advice and I will keep you posted as to how it turns out.
Post Reply