CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

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Re: Citroën C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by dieselnutjob »

a colleague has a 407 with 2.0 litre HDI and 138bhp (or something) and that appears to have the same 4HP20 as my 607. I assumed that the C5 would be the same.

I looked at the quantity of fuel injected using live data from the ECU to see if air conditioning made any difference, and basically it doesn't, but what I did find is that in D the fuel consumption is basically double what it is in N when the car is stationary. Therefore I normally move to N whenever I can. The car rolls at about 10mph in D, anything below that speed requires the brakes to fight the engine. Typically I will go from D to N as I slow down and when the speed gets to 10mph. In slow moving traffic I'm going between D and N quite a lot. I hope it's not harmful to the transmission....
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Re: Citroën C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by azzazel »

i didn't know there are two types of measurement units..... judging after that the numbers you presented "cachaciero" seem close to what I've encountered on the car i've been talking about. or i'm judging wrong.....
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Re: Re:

Post by cachaciero »

citroenxm wrote:
cachaciero wrote: .......... MK3's (which arn't C5's anyway being a completely different car).

cachaciero
Correct, they are C6's... :wink:
I prefer to think of them as C5.5's as they are only half way to a C6 :- :-D .

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Re:

Post by cachaciero »

addo wrote:A modern autobox in freeway conditions, suffers almost no economy penalty. Negligible converter slip and good overdrive ratios see that sorted. People waste more fuel by driving with the windows down...
Further to that even Citroen admit to a 6mpg difference between the auto and manual on the extra urban segment ( 2.2 173bhp) so the theory obviously doesn't quite work out in practice. :-(

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Re: Citroën C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by Peter.N. »

Even if they have torque converter lock up they still have clutches and hydraulic systems in them, you will have noticed I'm sure that they get very hot, heat = wasted energy.

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Re: Citroën C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by cachaciero »

Peter.N. wrote:Even if they have torque converter lock up they still have clutches and hydraulic systems in them, you will have noticed I'm sure that they get very hot, heat = wasted energy.

Peter
Indeed but then so does a standard box to some extent, it's the where in the cycle do the losses occur, in theory when in gear the box clutches are locked and in theory there should be no slip and the same is true of the converter. The comment by dieselnutjob re putting it into N when stopped highlights one area where in normal driving both heating will occur and extra fuel will be consumed, it's equivalent to a permanently slipping clutch in manual box terms. But that doesn't really explain why there are losses when one would expect everything to be in the equivalent state to a solid transmission.

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Re: Citroën C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by azzazel »

i've manage to take the car today for a spin and after 20 miles in the town with an average speed of 15mph the average consumption was 23.5mpg. is this a big consumtion for this car on the given conditions?
the char chassis has the following series: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] is there any possibility to find the details of this car?
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Re: Citroën C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by cachaciero »

20 miles from cold in town? 23 seems reasonable to me.

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Re: CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by barbrady »

I also have this kind of engine, and I have realized, when I go on motorway with 120 km/h (75mph) the fuel consumpsion is 6 L/100km (47mpg), when with 130 km/h (81mph) is 7 L/100km (40mpg). With 140 is 8 L. I think this is not normal. Has anybody idea what is the reason? 2009 C5 rhr hdi.
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Re: CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Once you go over 80 MPH fuel economy goes down significantly with at least a 28% fuel increase.

Look here for a graph:
http://www.mpgforspeed.com
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Re: CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by barbrady »

My previous car was a Bmw with similar engine, same hp, same ccm, but almost 10 years older and the consumption of it was 6.5 L/100km with 140 km/h. That is why I am surprised now with this car.
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Re: CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by EDC5 »

Over the last 1000 miles I've had 38.6 MPG (7.3 L/100KM) in my X7 2008 138 with the Aisin auto. In that mix I've done 2x 300 mile M'way trips at 70 and the rest really slow city driving. I think thats pretty good all things considered. Regarding a previous post, I never realised how heavy the X7 is and 138 HP does seem a little low....

I'd consider a remap, maybe to 160 or so but don't fancy the reprocussions come insurance renewal time when 90% of insurers wont even give you a quote....
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Re: CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It is quite a heavy car and one of the reasons why they changed the engines on later models to a 163Hp for the base diesel Elis. I did toy with a remap - but was advised against it at the time for DMF / clutch reasons, but since having them changed I decided against it after considering the additional stress on the components which are designed for certain tolerances. Be wary too - we've just had a chap here with the piloted 1.6 EGS system that had a remap and then the car went to pot as the torque and power ratios were all out of kilter confused the ECUs and ended up not being able to drive onto the kerb! He ended up restoring the factory default map to get it back to some sense of normality.
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Re: CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by EDC5 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 15 Jul 2017, 21:35 It is quite a heavy car and one of the reasons why they changed the engines on later models to a 163Hp for the base diesel Elis. I did toy with a remap - but was advised against it at the time for DMF / clutch reasons, but since having them changed I decided against it after considering the additional stress on the components which are designed for certain tolerances. Be wary too - we've just had a chap here with the piloted 1.6 EGS system that had a remap and then the car went to pot as the torque and power ratios were all out of kilter confused the ECUs and ended up not being able to drive onto the kerb! He ended up restoring the factory default map to get it back to some sense of normality.


Yeah, these things concern me too. From my understanding, the AM6 (TF-80) is used on the V6 HDi and also on the XC90 so can handle the power from a Volvo D5 for example, so that should be ok power wise.

I think though, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the map loaded onto the engine destined for a auto is different and is more tuned for low end torque, the gearbox's map is also tuned accordingly, popping a 'performance' 170bhp map on my C5 may leave my AM6 changing at the wrong points or something unless the map from a HDi 163 Auto was loaded instead?
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Re: CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI BAV 138HP CONSUMPTION

Post by GiveMeABreak »

A distinct possibility and there will be software differences in the ECUs too to account for the different engine - here are the AM6 ratios:
Gearbox ratios (Epicyclic gear outlet) :
1st : 4,15
2nd : 2,37
3rd : 1,56
4th : 1,16
5th : 0,86
6th : 0,69
Reverse gear : 3,39

Some other data (RHR column)
Click to zoom
AM6 Data.png
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