Xantia Cold Start - Stalling on first start up.

[Rhothgar]

Excellent Roger, I now see The fact it immediately fires and then stalls rules out glowplugs and compression issues

PHEW - on the compression!

I think your Bosch man is frying up a few red herrings for you there, the idle speed and anti-stall rarely needs adjusting unless the pump has been rebuilt and it can be tested easily...

He is commenting on something he has not seen and is assuming I have ruled out every other possibility. He's a diesel tuner / Bosch pump repair specialist. Can't say who he works for but, trust me, he's old and wise.

He's pretty straight talking and he is my contact if anyone needs any injectors sorting!!

I asked him if he would look at it if I missed any adjustments up and how much it would cost? Answer:- Free to you! BONUS! The joy of contacts.

I will answer your questions, Jim after I have been out and started it this morning. Many thanks for your valued insight.

Before I go out, I will comment on previous observations:-

Natural idle speed was around 850 - 900 and it felt too low from cold though I cannot recall it being 1200 or 1500rpm before. Yesterday after I had sprayed WD40 judiciously over the levers it raised to 1000 rpm on start but this was only a 6 hour cool down whilst at the warehouse not an overnight rest.

I'll report back later.

[CitroJim]

Well, if he'll do it for 'mates rates' Roger, excellent!!!! Result

I await developments with much interest....

[Xaccers]

Have you replaced the pipe from the filter housing to the pump with a clear one?

[Rhothgar]

Have you replaced the pipe from the filter housing to the pump with a clear one?

No but am planning to because I believe this is a fuelling problem. What diameter is it and does it need to be special grade, Xac? Hasn't it got a banjo connector on the pump? Mine has so surely this needs special equipment?

[Rhothgar]

Wen running and still coldish, note the natural idle speed. What is it?[/qoute] 950 rpm!

Snap open the throttle and let it snap back very sharply.

It does not stall but then again there is a dashpot damper on the non-cable end of the load lever which helps to decelerate the load lever.

when doing a first cold start gently rest your foot on the throttle and depress it enough to make the engine run at 1100 or 1200 rpm. Go for a start. Does it stall now?

No but by God it is trying it's hardest. Naturally, it was hard to gauge 1200 rpm. I was on 1400 - 1500 rpm and it only just managed to keep running. I think I'll video it tomorrow.

The cold start lever is only doing just what you've just done there in that test

. Once the engine is warm, if I move the cold start lever across onto fast idle as if the cable is taut, revs only increase a tad. Should the fast idle be set at 1200 not 950 as Haynes suggests.

If the engine still stalls then the problem is with fuel supply. Does it help it not stalling if you pump the primer bulb before trying to start?

It didn't stall but I have a feeling this must be a tiny amount of air as the hesitancy lasts for only 5 - 10 seconds once the car is restarted after being left for several hours standing. The primer bulb feels strange. Yesterday it didn't seem to firm up and today it did but not as much as I would expect.

I remember when Sylv had the problem on her ZX just how much resistance it should offer. We swapped hers out and it turned out to be the advance mechanism on her Lucas pump leaking so I have a spare primer bulb I can try.

[Xaccers]

Have you replaced the pipe from the filter housing to the pump with a clear one?

No but am planning to because I believe this is a fuelling problem. What diameter is it and does it need to be special grade, Xac? Hasn't it got a banjo connector on the pump? Mine has so surely this needs special equipment?

I can't remember what Jim and I used on Cassy, but we did find that the filter lid sprocket is larger than the banjo so it had to be small diameter but stretchy.
The original pipe has a size adaptor inline but I thought it best to reduce the number of joints and therefore chances of air ingress so went with a single length.

[CitroJim]

I think it's 6mm ID bit can check later - down in Somerset at the moment...

From the tests Roger, I'd say it's a fuel supply issue first and foremost and the clear pipe should help to locate it...

The primer bulb behaviour is different between a Bosch and Lucas pump. A Bosch pump is what is termed an 'open' pump and the primer will never go hard as there is always a patch from flow to return - hence an 'open' pump. The Lucas on the other hand is a 'closed' pump and therefore the primer will go hard after a few pumps. If the primer goes hard on a Bosch then you have issues!

[Peter.N.]

Pop in and have a cup of tea Jim, your'e not far away

[CitroJim]

Pop in and have a cup of tea Jim, your'e not far away

That would be lovely Peter but sadly I'm a fair old way from Charmouth

When I'm near abouts one of these day I'd love to come and join you in a cuppa and a natter Peter

[Peter.N.]

Please do.

Peter

[Rhothgar]

No worries, Jim! I've already done it.

'Bosch' gave me some pipe when I went to see him this morning.

I gave the fuel filter housing a good dose of Forte Diesel Treatment also when I changed the pipe from filter housing to pump to clear.

Also, started to cross-thread the banjo bolt because it wasn't sealing. I was pumping primer and could see diesel coming out between banjo bolt and washer. Then realised just as it just becoming easy to turn that 'Bosch' gave me four washers as he didn't have thick ones. Hopefully, no swarf in the diesel pump. Hope it would have manifested itself on the 17 mile journey home it there was!!!

I did tweak the anti-stall up a little as advised by 'Bosch' because he said there shouldn't be a dip after the throttle snaps shut. So a difference of opinion there. I went with his suggestion because I haven't got long left to rule everything out.

I also explained to him that it was also trying to stall on cold start even with foot on throttle and he seems to think it could be fueling but I think I'd already adjusted the anti-stall by then. Still! It's not going to do any harm. Fuel consumption will increase round town with the slightly higher revs, I suppose.

[CitroJim]

Excellent Roger...

As always, keep us posted on progress