Cambelts

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franciscolunn
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Post by franciscolunn »

Sorry guys but paranoia seems to set in about cambelts, its like winning the lottery it never happens to you unless you are extremely lucky and how often is that chaps....i know that i did 150k on a xantia thinking that belt had been changed but he lied so i would have been frantic had i known, got it done for £165 and now i worry that it might go tomorrow....drive and take it on the chin if it happens.
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benj
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Post by benj »

people will always take risks until it happens to them, its almost like learning from experience and not from others
iv never had it happen to me, and stupid as u may think i am, i always adopt the 'it will be ok' attitude. no doubt it will bite me in the arse, then id be telling everyone how important it is and expecting them to listen.
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Post by Dave Burns »

Look in belts and tensioners Jez, two are listed just to confuse matters, I don't know the difference in make but all 1.9 xud's regardless of year have the same belt, might be better to order it by phone or fetch one, ask for a Dayco belt.

N13113 TIMING BELT-DIESEL XANTIA 1.9D/TD £9.00
N13113A TIMING BELT XANTIA 1.9D/TD £8.50
Hehe just to keep the paranoia pot boiling, it isn't only the belt that gets tired, there is the water pump (just replaced mine today at 110k and done it just in time, developed play and starting to leak) that will throw the belt off if it gets too bad, tensioner roller and idler roller will do the same with badly worn bearings, or their bearings can give up the ghost in an instant and trash the lot just like the belt.
So there are other things to consider if you want trouble free motoring, if you would rather pay through the nose if it happens then good look, keep your head in the sand and hope, but if the worst does come a visiting it can cost someone that can't sort it themselves more than the car is worth, where do you go from there.
Dave
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Dave -
I think Jon explained a while ago (on ZX rear subframe parts) - that the basic part number is OEM part - while the -A number is an alternative part.
This means both belts are the same for these Xantia engines - but different suppliers.
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Post by Thregwort »

The Haynes manual is not very encouraging about this operation, detailing an 30-point procedure full of dire warnings about the lack of use of the 'special Citroen electronic tension measuring tool' and stating that the vehicle should not be driven over long distances or at high speeds until the tension has been checked by a Citroen dealer.
Over-tighten - the belt might break, too slack - the belt could 'jump a tooth'. Either way disaster for engine as valves hit piston heads.
So how have you guys comforted yourself following the replacement of the timing belt? What method did you use to set the tension? By hand/guesswork/common sense? Do tell.
Dave Burns and *mbunting* sound happy enough, almost routinely changing the belt every 55K or so, and clearly not lying awake at night fretting over non electronically-set tension a la Haynes' witches' prophecy. Whereas *franciscolunn* bit the bullet and shelled out £165 for the £8 belt to be fitted professionally.
So what is the consensus of opinion here? Is DIY replacement preferable to leaving a years-old belt in place [if the latter had been fitted by a Cit dealer at 36K or 72K]?
Has anyone had [or heard of] a disaster following DIY fitment, or is it all an over-rated scare campaign to drive us into the arms of the bottomless money pit of the Main Dealer?
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Thregwort -
The timing belt being such an engine-fatal component - no warnings on this should be taken as over-rated.
I'd say a first timer DIY'er should not do it to an everyday needed car. On the other hand - if the car can be spared for a couple of days in case of trouble - any DIY'er may well come out of this job a lot stronger [:)] - or with a hole in the wallet [B)]
As with anything else in life - some jobs needs experience for success in the end [;)]
You're not the first to stumble over the Haynes description - it's in no way perfect - should only be taken as a guide-line.
There is more to the job - than just replacing the belt :
Idler/tensioning wheels may need replacing.
Belt driven coolant pump likewise.
Crank & cam axle oil seals likely needs replacing too.
Access to the cambelt is insane.
Judging the correct belt tension another issue.
You may keep posting Q's to all these detailed problems - but how to explain experience - not facts ?
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Post by franciscolunn »

Yes i bit the bullet and shelled out £165 and i have a reciept and warranty from the Cit garage, that of course won't help the agro involved if it goes prematurley on the motorway but at least i have some comeback and peace of mind that i hope it would be all done on warranty should i have the misfortune,by the way guys the cambelt itself was £40+ i can't understand that price but hey it's all done now.
xantia 1.8 16v
bx gti
bx tgd
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Post by JohnD »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Thregwort</i>
[What method did you use to set the tension? By hand/guesswork/common sense? Do tell.
Dave Burns and *mbunting* sound happy enough, almost routinely changing the belt every 55K or so, and clearly not lying awake at night fretting over non electronically-set tension a la Haynes' witches' prophecy.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dave and Mb are referring to XUDiesel engines. The tension sets automatically.
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Post by Dave Burns »

Thregwort the 1.9 td belts are tensioned automaticaly by a spring loaded tensioning roller, so its not something we have to be bothered with, been spoiled really I suppose but after so many belt changes it gives you a good idea as to what is ok and what is not for other types, they aren't going to be radicaly different.
Got the injection pump off at the moment while doing this belt, water pump, and tensioner change, deffinately not for the feint hearted.
My very first post on here was to ask if anyone had a TD that wouldn't switch off until it had been running for a couple of minutes, hehe just getting round to sorting it, not easey because of the immobiliser, well over the top if you ask me.
Bloody luxury to have the pump out the way for swaping glow plugs though[:)]
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Post by JohnD »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by franciscolunn</i>
by the way guys the cambelt itself was £40+
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Isn't that a typical Citroen spares department price? It couldn't have been better than a Dayco belt from GSF.
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Post by franciscolunn »

I agree JOHND but when you go to a Cit garage you are in their hands but as i said before its done now.
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Post by Thregwort »

There's much food for thought there from Anders' post onwards - thanks guys. £40 for a belt??!! Yikes!
So the petrol version not to be messed with, on balance.
[There's a well-established 'cambelts-only' specialist in our area - I'll phone for a quote, and ask if they've done a CitXpet before].
Thanks to all for input.
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Post by franciscolunn »

Ah... just noticed you have a 8v engine THREGWORT, my £40 belt was based on a 16v engine i think you'll find yours will be at least a £10 cheaper or in that region.
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Post by mbunting »

Well, I suppose if you ignore the other bits, like taking the head off, and trying to keep that bloody sprung tensioner plunger in place ( which I only had to do because the head was off ), a belt change would have taken around 1.5 to 2 hours.
We checked it, found it was out, swore a few times, put it back on, checked it, swore again, put it back on, checked it, took it for a spin, and then had a beer !
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Post by Neil T »

I did this job recently on my 94 Xantia 1.9TD with lots of practical advice from this excellent forum (the Haynes manual is treacherous on the order in which to do things). The thread is still up there. Have a look for a more reasonable procedure.
As for risking it a bit further, why not take just the top cover off if that's possible on your model and have a look at the belt condition, turning the engine a full round of the cambelt, inspecting it as you go. The (possibly) overdue one I took off looked in excellent condition, and with hindsight I wouldn't have worried.
However if there is *any* visible deterioration of condition, and/or oil contamination I wouldn't risk it.
I'm assuming that since people report frayed tatty belts with teeth missing or rounded coming off still in one piece, that if your belt looks in good condition it should be reasonably safe from snapping, but I don't really know if that is a safe assumption. Anyone?
If you're used to DIY mechanics generally, and are adaptable and have a feel for these things as the job progresses, it is do-able. 2 days allowance should take some of the stress out of it. It's more long winded and awkward, but you don't have to abuse the belts to get them on and off, so its a nice job when its done.
Good luck,
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