Rattiva the Second...

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by CitroJim »

DickieG wrote:HDi's have excellent thermal efficiency, without some form of additional heater they never really warm up at this time of year, get the Eberspacher sorted and heat will be yours!
Makes you wonder why Citroen ever fitted a radiator and cooling fans to them? They barely need them...

I planned to look at the Eberspacher today... But a certain V6 decided she wanted all the attention :twisted:

I've really studied how the Eberspacher works in the past week and downloaded some more information on it. The only problem that might show-stop initially is if it has ever shut itself down more than five times due to an overheat condition. It then locks out and needs a dealer reset. Luckily, those heaters are used extensively in narrowboats and in fact the narrowboat forums have been a valuable source of information :) Living near the Grand Union and having a number of Marinas (of the boating sort, not the Morris sort...) nearby should help if it is locked out...

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by citroenxm »

You didnt need my hdi belt change guide then jim? :-D :lol:

they arent that hard to do as you found... A for warming up mine takes about 3 miles to warm up but once warm the gauge sits at theuseual point between 70 and 80 deg.. The heater is hot and engine hot too...

I never get less then 40mpg.. Thats fitted with a tuning box and my boot is always full with all my tools without fail.. There is NO comparison... As far as im concerned the xud cannot touch them..

Paul

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CitroJim
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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by CitroJim »

citroenxm wrote:You didnt need my hdi belt change guide then jim? :-D :lol:
I looked at it Paul, to brief myself on the job and then basically followed how I'd do an XU belt and delighted myself in generally finding the job more straightforward :-D So your giode was invaluable...

The HDi is clearly a close evolution of the XUD but it's good to see PSA have improved things along the way - better cam cover design, although they still have some fiddly bolts :twisted: and a much better auxiliary belt tensioning arrangement are just two that come to mind and to me, access seems better. Small improvements that make a big difference...

If you see an HDi as an XUD with a different head then you aren't really far wrong... Buy yes, I agree - once the delights of an HDi have been sampled it has to be said it is a massive improvement on the XUD9 although not so noticeably different from an XUD11 except it's revvier. I stand by my view that the HDi encompasses the best of both the XUD9 and XUD11 in one engine.

One thing you can't escape from is that if the HDi conks out then you're stranded. The XUD9 on the other hand being mostly mechanical and simple, can be rigged in all sorts of ways to get you home; as Xac can attest. This will always be the strong point of the XUD9 and you can't argue against that in any way.

We did the cambelt and water pump on Chris570's HDi today so that's two HDi cambelts in as many weekends... The only main difference from mine was the use of a SEEM gauge on Chris's to set the tension. That's a jolly critical and sensitive adjustment!

I gave Rattiva a good run along the fast roads to and from Chris's and was pleased to note rather more cabin heat was available when driven in a more spirited manner :-D

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by citroenxm »

Stranded XUD recovery is Fine on a COMPLETELY mechanical setup, but prehaps a bit less so with a key pad setup pump..?? Maybee...

I had to read that carefully because I find if you stall an HDi they DO NOT start up straight away for some reason, they need a good few more crank overs compared to an instant restart on an XUD - I guess this is to do with the cam and fuel pressure sensors initialising themselfs...

As for the HDi being an XUD with a new head, id say its a bitt more then that, the Only common intems between xud and hdi is and Crank shafts, oil coolers and water pumps and thats it.

They do not use the same belt and they are slightly different positioning at the front idler.. The pistons are NOT a flat head type like XUD the tops are hollowed out a bit to help direct injection smoothness.. Oh, and HDi will survive a belt breakage, only needing the rocker fingers changing, and if need so the hydraulic lifters... but the Taxi Xantia that broke hers and all 8 rockers lived on, she broke hers at around 259k.. I fitted a set of rockers, assembled her all up again, shes now on 272k..

She was dooing around 60mph when it happend too..

Whats taken you so long Jim!! HDi it is ONLY if you have a Lexia for an emergency.. Mine is Always in my boot...

Paul

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Xaccers
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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by Xaccers »

citroenxm wrote:As far as im concerned the xud cannot touch them..

Paul
I'll give you £20 of diesel against my £20 of WVO and see which one of us runs out of fuel first ;)

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by CitroJim »

I know there's a lot of detail differences Paul but it's very clear the XUD is the antecedent of the HDi. The family resemblance is very strong...
citroenxm wrote: Whats taken you so long Jim!!
Just waited patiently for the right one to come along at the right time, in the right place and for the right money :wink: :lol:

I'd sold Old V6, I wanted a workhorse for winter and Rattiva popped up, satisfying all the conditions above...

And I quite fancied the challenge of an HDi to improve my Xantia knowledge for the column...

All I need now is to own a 1.8 or 2.0 16V petrol and then I will have had the lot :lol:

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CitroJim
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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by CitroJim »

Xac wrote:
citroenxm wrote:As far as im concerned the xud cannot touch them..

Paul
I'll give you £20 of diesel against my £20 of WVO and see which one of us runs out of fuel first ;)
No fair! I call shenanigans :lol: :lol: £20 will buy a massive amount of WVO. Maybe a hundred gallons if you shop carefully?

Now , it might be a different case with £20 worth of diesel in an HDi versus £20 worth of SVO in a 1.9TD. It might be a very close-run thing...

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by Xaccers »

CitroJim wrote:
Xac wrote:
citroenxm wrote:As far as im concerned the xud cannot touch them..

Paul
I'll give you £20 of diesel against my £20 of WVO and see which one of us runs out of fuel first ;)
No fair! I call shenanigans :lol: :lol: £20 will buy a massive amount of WVO. Maybe a hundred gallons if you shop carefully?

Now , it might be a different case with £20 worth of diesel in an HDi versus £20 worth of SVO in a 1.9TD. It might be a very close-run thing...
Image

Remind me to lend you a copy of Super Troopers Jim, when I bring over the Wickerman.

It'd be close, but the 1.9TD should still beat the Hdi.
Now, really it should be a 2.1TD with a bosch, that should significantly out distance the 110hdi

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by citroenxm »

And HOW many fuel filters and fuel pumps will you need to re seal in 200k over a HDi..

I mean engine pumps too, I realise the tank pumps fail on HDis, but WVO can and is Unkind to Pump seals...

My hdi engine pump is on 193k and going strong... as far as I know its all original.

PS: Ive also NO time to filter and p**s about with WVO mixing etc.. I need to be able to simply put Fuel in And Go.. The HDi does it at aover 45mpg.. Sorted! Oh, and goes like a 1600 petrol too... and better I guess with an empty boot.

Paul

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CitroJim
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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by CitroJim »

:rofl:

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Xaccers
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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by Xaccers »

citroenxm wrote:And HOW many fuel filters and fuel pumps will you need to re seal in 200k over a HDi..

I mean engine pumps too, I realise the tank pumps fail on HDis, but WVO can and is Unkind to Pump seals...

My hdi engine pump is on 193k and going strong... as far as I know its all original.

PS: Ive also NO time to filter and p**s about with WVO mixing etc.. I need to be able to simply put Fuel in And Go.. The HDi does it at aover 45mpg.. Sorted! Oh, and goes like a 1600 petrol too... and better I guess with an empty boot.

Paul
Now I call shenanigans ;)
The fuel filter is of a different design on a hdi so change the filter housing on a 1.9TD and the problem of age (not veg, it's age that damages the seals, veg just brings it to light) goes away.
You can buy WVO prefiltered so as with DERV and SVO, you just pour it in and go :D
Like i said though, £20 of fuel and see which gets the furthest, particularly important if you're facing Zombie hordes too. Image

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CitroJim
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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by CitroJim »

Xac wrote:particularly important if you're facing Zombie hordes too. Image
I see them every morning going to work...

They mainly drive newish German cars fitted with hideous DRLs mostly... If they're not zombies then they do a fair impression of them :evil:

The HDi seems quite able to cope with them :wink:

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by myglaren »

citroenxm wrote: I had to read that carefully because I find if you stall an HDi they DO NOT start up straight away for some reason, they need a good few more crank overs compared to an instant restart on an XUD - I guess this is to do with the cam and fuel pressure sensors initialising themselfs...
Paul
I've stalled mine a few times - I find it stalls quite easily - and it just fires up straight away (fortunately as it is usually at traffic lights)
If only it would fire up first thing like it ought to. Really must have a tinker around with it.

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by Dommo »

citroenxm wrote:And HOW many fuel filters and fuel pumps will you need to re seal in 200k over a HDi..

I mean engine pumps too, I realise the tank pumps fail on HDis, but WVO can and is Unkind to Pump seals...

My hdi engine pump is on 193k and going strong... as far as I know its all original.

PS: Ive also NO time to filter and p**s about with WVO mixing etc.. I need to be able to simply put Fuel in And Go.. The HDi does it at aover 45mpg.. Sorted! Oh, and goes like a 1600 petrol too... and better I guess with an empty boot.

Paul
We've run my peugeot 306 on WVO since 2007, and it was on 115k then and it's now on 170k+, no fuel pump issues. My Xantia has been run on WVO since I bought it last August at 81k and is now on 106k, not as many miles as the 306 granted but they are both fine. I've never needed to change my fuel filters either, only changed them on the xantia when I first bought it, and on 306 when I was getting initial start-up fuel starvation issues (which turned out to be leak off pipes anyway)! If it's filtered down to 5 micron like mine is there's no issue with fuel filters, and 5 micron is surprisingly easy to filter down to.

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Re: Rattiva the Second...

Post by RichardW »

Jim

Was musing on your heating problems this morning... Although mine has the electric heater it is only 0.5kW - tiny compared to the heat the engine is rejecting into the water - but even at 60 on the gauge there is plenty of heat out of the vents. Up to running temp (which admittedly takes 7-8 miles on A roads!) and it's plenty hot. So if you're getting up to nearly 90 on the gauge and not getting heat out then something is wrong. Did you ever get to the bottom of the broken / missing stepper motor? What does the Lexia (if it's decided to stop sulking!) say about the cabin temp? I think the stat is a bypass type (and not cheap!) so if the wrong one has been fitted, this could accuont for lack of heat in the matrix. What does No 1 hand on the heater pipes at the bulkhed say (or even better an infrared thermometer)?

Of course, none of this is a bar to fixing that jet engine under the front wing :twisted: