Urgent: I have a Problem and I Need Help...

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 17 Aug 2011, 21:20

Paul,

Perfection is a talent we don't all share.

i stand corrected I was reading about the V6's before typing that out and got my wires crossed now corrected.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 17 Aug 2011, 21:23

LOL.... Thought it would be something small... See that little badge, V6 seems to get so many people,..

Paul

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 17 Aug 2011, 21:32

the xm I drove was an old taxi it had done 500K.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 17 Aug 2011, 21:36

F N HELL

Thats impressive... no wonder it was a little worn!

Paul

Post by **Peter.N.** » 17 Aug 2011, 22:14

Paul

Not only was the jack under the jacking point but it had the customary 12" length of angle iron between the jack and sill - the whole lot gave way. That's the first time I have had a sill collapse through rust but the rest of the car seems to be going the same way because my son has been using it for about three years so I haven't been able to oil the underneath. The white one I have, and that's solid, apart from a bit round the rear wings but that's beginning to look a bit tatty. I now understand where all the XMs are going

Peter

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 17 Aug 2011, 22:28

citroenxm wrote:As for the electrics, Im not sure Richard, what makes you think they have dodgy electrics!! Ive not experianced this except the suspension.. which was only on early ones as in G and H plate.....

Reputation not only from the press but within Citroen circles.

citroenxm wrote:As for S1 24v, They are rare very rare, and they makes a stupendiously GOOD manifold intake noise, do 0-60 in 7.5 seconds.. Which they do, and Ive been told surpass 150mph.....

From the research I've done PRV engines only give a rather unimpressive 170bhp so with the weight and size of an XM I think those performance figures are very wishful thinking. For example Citronet give a 0-60 time of 9.2 with an auto box so a manual will only take that down to 9.0 seconds at best which are reasonable figures given the weight and size of an XM. The later ESJ produces another 27bhp and even in a smaller/lighter Xantia its still nowhere near a 0-60 time of 7.5 seconds. To get an Xm to have that performance you'd need about 250 bhp. I wonder whether the noise of the PRV makes it feel quicker than it actually is.

citroenxm wrote:My particular H reg S1, has infact got all the under pinnings of a K reg 1992 S1.5 on her, so has the bolted earths, H3 ECU with better generious ECU settings, and works in Hard and Soft mode.

From what you're stating there Paul it strongly suggests early cars had electric problems.

citroenxm wrote:Everything works, Except the sunroof, but then I dont care for sunroofs.

So for me, at least, Im not sure where the reputation of dodgy electrics comes from.. Even my S1 2.1 SED has everything working.

As I mentioned above, why does the sunroof not work?

I'm not deliberately throwing brickbats but curious about the desirability of these early PRV XM's when the facts on performance I see before me tell a different story from what I'd call folklore. As for the electric problems well I think that's been answered.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 17 Aug 2011, 22:35

Richard,

You quote PRV 12v Figures at 170bhp...

The PRV 24v Actually produces 200bhp..... And dont you know it!!!

BELEVE ME I have Both the 12 and 24v versions, and the ESJ in the Xantia, Ask Jim, he HAS driven my 24v XM Manual...and Xac has been in it...

Paul

Post by **DHallworth** » 17 Aug 2011, 22:52

I've got 3 Series 1 24v's and cannot say I've had any problems on any of them with dodgy earths, or anything else electrical other then a connector I disturbed in the engine bay when working on it recently.

The Series 1 24v does produce 200bhp as Paul suggests... When coupled with the 5 speed manual it shifts.

Citroen quote 7.5 seconds to 60 and a top speed of 147mph. I have (on a private track) had mine off the pin at 155mph.

On said private track I was also playing with a Mondeo ST220, my XM was able to keep up with it from standstill to 130mph when we both came to a stop.

The Series 1 24v XM is identical in performance to the later 406 Coupe (210bhp) with the 5 speed manual.

I've owned both (As has Paul) a 12v manual and a 24v manual and the performance difference between the two is staggering.

David.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 17 Aug 2011, 23:15

citroenxm wrote:Richard,

You quote PRV 12v Figures at 170bhp...

The PRV 24v Actually produces 200bhp..... And dont you know it!!!

BELEVE ME I have Both the 12 and 24v versions, and the ESJ in the Xantia, Ask Jim, he HAS driven my 24v XM Manual...and Xac has been in it...

Paul

And I smile every time I think of it

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 17 Aug 2011, 23:16

citroenxm wrote:Richard,

You quote PRV 12v Figures at 170bhp...

The PRV 24v Actually produces 200bhp..... And dont you know it!!!

BELEVE ME I have Both the 12 and 24v versions, and the ESJ in the Xantia, Ask Jim, he HAS driven my 24v XM Manual...and Xac has been in it...

Paul

I've searched high and low but can only find references to 170bhp but even if the 24v does give 200bhp I still cannot see the performance figures you quote as being realistic, 30 bhp won't make that much difference as the smaller lighter Xantia with 194bhp can't manage a 0-60 under 8 seconds. Interestingly Car magazine when they tested the XM with a PRV engine in a group test stated "Subjectively, the 3.0 Peugeot does not feel as lively as the like-engined Citroen, but that’s perhaps because it is smoother and quieter than its inexplicably throbbier PSA stablemate. indifferent refinement was finally to prove the XM’s only serious flaw" So I really do wonder whether the NVH factor I mention above really does make the PRV appear/sound faster than it actually is.

Having said all that, even if a 0-60 time of 7.5 was ever achieved by an XM I'm nowhere near convinced that its a reason to buy one over a later version when everything is taken into consideration.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 17 Aug 2011, 23:20

XM has better aerodynamics than the Xantia which would help.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 17 Aug 2011, 23:29

Xac wrote:XM has better aerodynamics than the Xantia which would help.

Only at very high/top speed though and very little when it comes to acceleration up to 60mph as drag only becomes a limiting factor above 30mph.

Does the XM have better aerodynamics though? Drag factor takes into account the size of the frontal area as a co-efficient and as the XM (CD 30)is larger than a Xantia (CD 31) the total amount of drag on an XM is higher than a Xantia. CDa of a Xantia 6.67, Xm 6.78.

addo · Post by **addo** » 17 Aug 2011, 23:43

It (cd) also reflects length, and that's where the XM has an edge over Xantia.

I would readily describe the progress of a 12V PRV as "casual". However, like many motors with appreciable internal weight flapping about, it maintains a smooth cruising nature with less apparent effort than a smaller donk.

IMHO book data for speeds/acceleration are at best a guideline; more frequently bosh.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 18 Aug 2011, 07:45

Well then... you will have to come to Next Years CXM then Richard, I wont be there this year for obvious reasons, but will Defenatly be next year, you'll have to take mine out!

MTXM will be there in his, however, Im not sure he will let you take it out on your own, or show you fully what they CAN do..

Its amazing - it makes the car feel like a Saxo and shifts so well.. They REALY REALLY do 60 in one gear change! 1st to 2nd... yep, 60 in 2nd gear at 6350rpm or so...

Paul

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 18 Aug 2011, 08:17

I'm certainly interested to see/experience what's behind the desire factor, especially when the later V6 on paper has similar engine performance figures. I'll look forward to one day going for a drive in one.

Bad planning for this year a basic schoolboy error, rule number one when planning a wedding, check all calenders including sporting fixtures