ah, ok...thanks Cloggz... So, where should i look next then??
The strange thing is, when i was initially testing it, i removed the brown plug, and only the right fan began to spin, but only after some encouragement from a hammer on each separate try. The left fan didn't spin at all.
When i removed motors and tested with a power probe, the left fan motor appeared to operate perfectly fine. The right fan motor was clearly damaged and was reluctant to operate.
so, just to be clear, the relays are receiving the right voltage, so there is no problem with the wiring anywhere along the line then?
Xantia radiator fans not working
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VertVega
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Don't spend too much time on relays. The brushes are done, they have served their best.i3 wrote:... i removed the brown plug, and only the right fan began to spin, but only after some encouragement from a hammer on each separate try. The left fan didn't spin at all. ,,,
Solution:
- new fan motors (be prepared they are expensive)
or
- used ones from a scrap car (you don't know how long they'll last).
C5 II 2.0i 16V - 2005 - Estate - 103KW - EW10A - Petrol - Manual
The left side relay is obviously good because it switches the right side motor when tapped.
If the left fan spins with a power probe, I assume that it means that it spins with 12 volts applied to it.
So, it should spin with the brown plug disconnected because that’s when both fans get 12 V to spin at high speed.
We now swap the two top relays to see if the fault changes sides.
If the left fan now spins with the brown plug out but not the right one, we suspect the relay.
The black Cartier 25 Amp relays have five pins and can be swapped all around.
Only the bottom relay uses all five pins while the middle pin is not used on the two top relays.
It may be difficult to hear on a diesel but when the brown plug gets pulled out, the top right relay must click first, then the two others together about a second or two later.
If they can’t be heard, maybe enlist a volunteer to pull the plug while you’re feeling the relays for clicking.
Just seen VertVega’s post about the brushes instead of the relays, and yes, the brushes will be worn but if the left fan spins when powered with a wire, it then has another cause for not spinning with the brown plug out.
If the left fan spins with a power probe, I assume that it means that it spins with 12 volts applied to it.
So, it should spin with the brown plug disconnected because that’s when both fans get 12 V to spin at high speed.
We now swap the two top relays to see if the fault changes sides.
If the left fan now spins with the brown plug out but not the right one, we suspect the relay.
The black Cartier 25 Amp relays have five pins and can be swapped all around.
Only the bottom relay uses all five pins while the middle pin is not used on the two top relays.
It may be difficult to hear on a diesel but when the brown plug gets pulled out, the top right relay must click first, then the two others together about a second or two later.
If they can’t be heard, maybe enlist a volunteer to pull the plug while you’re feeling the relays for clicking.
Just seen VertVega’s post about the brushes instead of the relays, and yes, the brushes will be worn but if the left fan spins when powered with a wire, it then has another cause for not spinning with the brown plug out.
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389
ok, Clogzz,
when the brown plug is unplugged, first the black relay beside the purple relay on the end of the engine fusebox clicks first, followed shortly by the centre bottom and top left black relays on the fan housing clicking about the same time. im fairly certain there is no click from the top right black relay in the fan housing. i held each relay to feel and done the unplugging brown sensor test many many times. i switched the top right relay with the bottom one, same thing, i swapped them all around, nothing.
The only relays that click when the brown plug is pulled, is the black one in the engine fusebox (next to purple), and the bottom and left one on fan housing. i checked a few times with the engine off, and ignition on, so i could hear clearly any relays switching.
did you read my earlier post where i described (cant find camera cable) the engine bay fusebox?
i have a feeling it is missing a relay...???
when the brown plug is unplugged, first the black relay beside the purple relay on the end of the engine fusebox clicks first, followed shortly by the centre bottom and top left black relays on the fan housing clicking about the same time. im fairly certain there is no click from the top right black relay in the fan housing. i held each relay to feel and done the unplugging brown sensor test many many times. i switched the top right relay with the bottom one, same thing, i swapped them all around, nothing.
The only relays that click when the brown plug is pulled, is the black one in the engine fusebox (next to purple), and the bottom and left one on fan housing. i checked a few times with the engine off, and ignition on, so i could hear clearly any relays switching.
did you read my earlier post where i described (cant find camera cable) the engine bay fusebox?
i have a feeling it is missing a relay...???
Last edited by i3 on 05 Jun 2011, 04:22, edited 1 time in total.
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CitroJim
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I don't think so, the blue base is often unoccupied. I can't recall exactly the full purpose of it but in an automatic say, the start inhibit relay would use that base. Other model specifications may use it for something else...i3 wrote: i have a feeling it is missing a relay...???
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Fuse boxes often look like there are relays and fuses missing.
What and how many missing depends on the model.
First picture shows a relay socket with nothing in it; that’s a normal, complete and working Xantia in Belgium.
There’s no relay in the fuse box to operate the fans.
Unplugging the brown sensor causes the air conditioning relay in the fuse box to click, even if the aircon isn’t working.
That’s because disconnecting the brown sensor is meant to spin both fans at high speed for emergency cooling, and the aircon compressor relay also disconnects to reduce the load on the engine.
As in the second picture, bridge the top and bottom connectors of the top right socket with a thick piece of wire to start both fans at low speed.
That can be done even with the key out as the voltages on that socket are there permanently.
If no sign of life, carefully spin the fan blades with whatever flexible stick or twig.
Any motion of both fans will confirm that the relay was doing nothing.
With 12V on the left connector, it’s then the right one that’s not getting earthed to click the relay shut.
Next, attach a thin piece of wire to the right pin of the relay and push it into the socket just enough to make the four contacts.
Short the other end of the wire to the battery negative or whatever metal nearby.
If the relay then clicks, it means that the wire to that socket connector goes nowhere.
Depending on the model, the relay clicking wires have a plug and socket dangling in front of the battery or nearby.
Don’t know the wire colours, but the one to the right socket connector will be open.
What and how many missing depends on the model.
First picture shows a relay socket with nothing in it; that’s a normal, complete and working Xantia in Belgium.
There’s no relay in the fuse box to operate the fans.
Unplugging the brown sensor causes the air conditioning relay in the fuse box to click, even if the aircon isn’t working.
That’s because disconnecting the brown sensor is meant to spin both fans at high speed for emergency cooling, and the aircon compressor relay also disconnects to reduce the load on the engine.
As in the second picture, bridge the top and bottom connectors of the top right socket with a thick piece of wire to start both fans at low speed.
That can be done even with the key out as the voltages on that socket are there permanently.
If no sign of life, carefully spin the fan blades with whatever flexible stick or twig.
Any motion of both fans will confirm that the relay was doing nothing.
With 12V on the left connector, it’s then the right one that’s not getting earthed to click the relay shut.
Next, attach a thin piece of wire to the right pin of the relay and push it into the socket just enough to make the four contacts.
Short the other end of the wire to the battery negative or whatever metal nearby.
If the relay then clicks, it means that the wire to that socket connector goes nowhere.
Depending on the model, the relay clicking wires have a plug and socket dangling in front of the battery or nearby.
Don’t know the wire colours, but the one to the right socket connector will be open.
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389
Cloggz,
done exactly what you said.
both methods, the fans started spinning. when wiring the wire to the right pin to the battery negative, the relay clicked and the fan motor began spinning.
whats next? i will try to find that wire you are talking about near the battery. but what do you mean by "it will be open"?
thanks
done exactly what you said.
both methods, the fans started spinning. when wiring the wire to the right pin to the battery negative, the relay clicked and the fan motor began spinning.
whats next? i will try to find that wire you are talking about near the battery. but what do you mean by "it will be open"?
thanks
Open means that the wire has a break, probably behind or below the fans’ mounting frame.
The wire goes from the right socket to the Bitron, which is the switching box to operate the cooling fans and the air conditioning’s safety cut-out.
On the diesel cars, the Bitron is very badly placed under the passenger’s side headlight, but it’s very unlikely to be faulty.
I’ve never been behind or under the cooling fans so don’t know which way the wire goes to the Bitron.
Probably through a faulty connector as referred to by Kenny on the previous page.
With the multimeter it should be possible to check for continuity from the right socket connector to the loom behind the fans.
From the third picture, it looks like there’s a way to get to the wires inside the relay box to see their colours and follow them around the back.
The wire goes from the right socket to the Bitron, which is the switching box to operate the cooling fans and the air conditioning’s safety cut-out.
On the diesel cars, the Bitron is very badly placed under the passenger’s side headlight, but it’s very unlikely to be faulty.
I’ve never been behind or under the cooling fans so don’t know which way the wire goes to the Bitron.
Probably through a faulty connector as referred to by Kenny on the previous page.
With the multimeter it should be possible to check for continuity from the right socket connector to the loom behind the fans.
From the third picture, it looks like there’s a way to get to the wires inside the relay box to see their colours and follow them around the back.
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389