Technosir C720 has arrived

[Rhothgar]

Overall, it sounds a reasonably priced solution.

So I assume that the spheres can be left in-situ on the car to repressurise. Also, presumably the Technosir unit is used for checking pressure so there is no need for a separate pressure tester like CitroJim used to own? If so, it almost makes the maintenance a routine item and for an easy life of floaty luxury.

EDIT: Just checked and a small cylinder from BOC is £28.79+VAT and it seems to suggest a cylinder is only £20 for a small X:V size which is 2.1m3. Quite a large cylinder. I was hoping for something more akin to the handheld size.

Presumably the big brass lump in the C720 kit is for the bottle connection?

I have two spheres that desperately need replacing. Just wondering if I should take the plunge and go for it.

I’ll probably have more questions once I look into it a bit more.

Thanks for your advice.

[white exec]

The brass lump on the end of the tool's long hose connects direct to the cylinder I have here. It's almost (but not quite) ½" BSP female, intended for flat-face mating to the male thread on the cylinder. BUT, check out the nitrogen cylinder threads on cylinders in the UK . . . they do vary across Europenan countries.

There is no need for a pressure regulator for the cylinder; the tool is designed to run straight off a 200bar cylinder.
Note: You'll never empty the cylinder, because even the lowest-pressure sphere is c.30bar, so that's as low as cylinder pressure can go.
The cylinder I have stands about 600mm high, and lasts me a good few years.

Checking pressure with the C720:
1. Make sure there is no hydraulic pressure behind the sphere - important, or you can bet a wrong reading of the sphere pressure. Either unscrew it from the car, or make sure system pressure is completely relieved.
2. Couple the tool to the Valprex, and VERY VERY slowly slightly open the tool's control valve. Delivery of gas is designed to be slow (a flow restictor in the tool's handle), and you'll see the pressure gauge slowly climb. At some point, the needle movement will slow: that is the point where the pressure in the delivery tube meets resistance from the Valprex valve, and is the existing sphere pressure.
3. Open further to continue to inflate sphere to required pressure.

[Rhothgar]

I'm no further on with this at present.

How do I know which Valprex valves I need? I have green spheres, I have grey spheres. Can I remove the stopper in the end of a sphere without injury and/or loss of gas I am wondering?

No-one in the UK seems to have one of these. It would be presumably easy enough to make if I could find out what connectors are required for each connection.

Tecnosir still do not ship to the UK.

[Rhothgar]

The Valprex valves are intended to be left in place on the spheres on the car. They allow gas pressure to be both checked and topped up. Sold in packs of five by Tecnosir.

So all-in cost is the C720 tool, Valprex valves as needed, and a cylinder of nitrogen.
Nitrogen is cheap enough (refill/exchange-cylinder), but you'll need to check the initial deposit charge for taking on a cylinder from your chosen gas supplier. (Here in Spain, initial deposit on a full cylinder was €100, and refill/exchange was €30.)

Finally, I had some responses from Tecnosir but I am stuck regarding the connection to the N2 bottle.

Is there anyone in the UK who can advise I wonder?

According to BOC, their N2 cylinders have a 7/16" JIC thread. They are closed now until Monday but I go to Austria tomorrow and want Tecnosir to deliver to me in Austria because the UK shipping price I felt was exhorbitant at 50 Euros. I'm pushing the boundaries financially as it is just buying this kit at the moment.

Forgot all about deposit for the cylinder. I hoping to find a N2 cylinder fly-tipped somewhere...

So does anyone know of a supplier that has a ready-to-fit adapter between N2 cylinder and Tecnosir.

Which cylinder connection is the best to go for with the C720? The Italian Whitworth 21.4 1/14" UNI4407? The French Whitworth 21.4mm. 1/14" NFC or the German/EU Whitworth 24.32mm. 1/14" DIN477?

Surely an adapter between a 7/16" JIC and one of the Tecnosir connections is available as standard?

Or is there something close that could be made to work with a bit of PTFE tape? At 230 bar, I don't want there to be a Nitrogen leak to be honest.

[Jay-Bruce]

7/16" jic is an oddball size...

JIC sizes are denoted as #-JIC or simply -# where # is your number. Typical jic sizes are even numbers, starting at 4-JIC OR 1/4” JIC, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20, 24 & 32. (Yes, I know, it's daft to create a framework for fitting sizes that permits 1/16th increments then go up in 1/8th or 1/4" increments)

In 15 years on the tools as a hydraulics tech, I've only encountered 7-JIC on one piece of equipment, and the training course for it from the manufacturer stated it was an over engineered POS.

Your regulator typically comes from the bottle, which can either be flatface, or bull nosed, to 3/8" BSP male.(use with swivel female hose) so, you'll need 3/8" BSP swivel female x JIC7 female either as a "nipple" or a hose made to those ends. I'd say get the technosir kit, then pick up a bottle and regulator, and take them to a hydraulics place to get a hose made. 1/4" poly flex will be lovely to work with, and shouldn't be expensive.

[Jay-Bruce]

According to the BOC website, N2 cylinders have a 5/8" BSP recessed cone ( what I call a bull nose regulator) fitting
https://www.boconline.co.uk/shop/en/uk/ ... r-cylinder

[corrected typo from BSK to BSP]

[Rhothgar]

According to the BOC website, N2 cylinders have a 5/8" BSP recessed cone ( what I call a bull nose regulator) fitting
https://www.boconline.co.uk/shop/en/uk/ ... r-cylinder

[corrected typo from BSK to BSP]

Confused me even more now.

I did find a JIC to DIN10 fitting on a Swedish Aerospace site. A reasonable €94

One reason I am trying to get an answer before I commit as really I think if an adapter ended up being that expensive it would have to write off the idea for now.

So I spoke to BOC Nottingham and he said speak to the expert at BOC Derby. He was then the one that said it is JIC 7/16”.

The Tecnosir end is flat flared.

Apparently you don’t use a regulator because you need the full pressure from the bottle. I initially asked BOC for a 100 bar regulator and they said theirs are £350!!!! Hence why I need to tie it all down before tomorrow really so I can get it ordered if I am getting one.

Was trying to work out with stickyfinger the other day how many spheres could be filled with an X size bottle 3.84 cubic metres. (10 litres at 230 bar initial pressure).

[Rhothgar]

According to the BOC website, N2 cylinders have a 5/8" BSP recessed cone ( what I call a bull nose regulator) fitting
https://www.boconline.co.uk/shop/en/uk/ ... r-cylinder

[corrected typo from BSK to BSP]

it's a good job you're on side, Jay.

Just cannot believe that the new guy at Nottingham said the guy at Derby was the expert and he actually didn't know what he was talking about.

Just called them again and they tell me that the thread it is BSP Parallel. Still trying to source an adapter as I type.

Another worry is whether the Tecnosir tool is designed to withstand 230 bar unregulated pressure!!!

[Rhothgar]

The brass lump on the end of the tool's long hose connects direct to the cylinder I have here. It's almost (but not quite) ½" BSP female, intended for flat-face mating to the male thread on the cylinder. BUT, check out the nitrogen cylinder threads on cylinders in the UK . . . they do vary across Europenan countries.

There is no need for a pressure regulator for the cylinder; the tool is designed to run straight off a 200bar cylinder.
Note: You'll never empty the cylinder, because even the lowest-pressure sphere is c.30bar, so that's as low as cylinder pressure can go.
The cylinder I have stands about 600mm high, and lasts me a good few years.

Checking pressure with the C720:
1. Make sure there is no hydraulic pressure behind the sphere - important, or you can bet a wrong reading of the sphere pressure. Either unscrew it from the car, or make sure system pressure is completely relieved.
2. Couple the tool to the Valprex, and VERY VERY slowly slightly open the tool's control valve. Delivery of gas is designed to be slow (a flow restictor in the tool's handle), and you'll see the pressure gauge slowly climb. At some point, the needle movement will slow: that is the point where the pressure in the delivery tube meets resistance from the Valprex valve, and is the existing sphere pressure.
3. Open further to continue to inflate sphere to required pressure.

Thanks. That's all extremely useful.

Now, I've just got to find a suitable adapter. Been quoted 180 GBP by one company.

[Sloppysod]

Looks like I'm gong to go down the road of re-gassing the Spheres on My C5 (X7).
However, I need to get a few ducks in a row before I commit and spend money.

• After A Youtube troll, I watched the a Guy, modify a C5 Sphere on his lathe
  [media]https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxZStMQmVGHe ... zHTZychges[/media]

• The lathe is one way, but I think a Bench of Pillar drill with a suitable Spotface cutter, before the tapping dill will work, as you only need a flat surface square to the hole for the vale to seat.

• I have found the Tecnosir website and the valves I will need (Valprex 2000-7C5), problem is I will need two sets as the X7 has 7 Spheres, unless I can get them to send just the 7

I have an independent Citroen Specialist near me and will pop over for a chat sometime in the next couple of weeks, but hes been around for a very long time and I expect he has an original Citroen sphere regassing set-up and it may not be compatible for the Tecnosir system.

I don't expect my car to be around in another 10 years, so its likely that I will have to regass the spheres twice at most. I'm not comfortable on spending £200 on the tool I'm only going to use once or twice. As well as having a bottle of nitrogen sitting around that would be over 3/4 full!

If my local guy cannot help, can someone else help, either by using their own kit or point me in a direction of someone who can.
The modifying of the sphere is not much of a problem, I could do that, its the actual regassing that may is my main concern.

Also, I will need to make a fixture to support the sphere, I have an idea how and it would be handy to have it before I start the job. What size hole will I need to locate (snugly) thread on a sphere?

[Rhothgar]

Tecnosir will only supply multiples of 5 AFAIK.

If your local guy has the official Citroen setup then he should also have the correct valves as Valprex will not work. Citroen had their own valve.

No idea how putting spheres on a lathe. I’ve no idea what you would need to modify them for. Tecnosir have valves that will fit I’m sure.

Where are you based?

[Sloppysod]

The standard X7 spheres do not have a removable valve/end plug so the sphere has to be modified, drilled and tapped, to accept the Tecnosir valve as per photos below. The Tecnosir valve assembly includes the o-ring seal found on the standard sphere.
Based in Northwales, near Chester.

[Rhothgar]

Really? I’d like to see a photo of that. Tecnosir do vakves for different cars.