cooling fans issue Xsara hdi 90bhp dw10 year 2000 with a/c

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 06 Mar 2011, 16:09

eurotrotter wrote:... looks like il have to buy off ebay. ...

It seems to be the the best option, in your case.

Driving french car and especially a "Citroen" is strange for many people.
I guess it's same everywhere, except in France.
I never cared about it and I'm very proud of my Xantia

This forum is one of the most i n t e r n a t i o n a l and most f r i e n d l y one.
My location is in Scandinavia, land of long winter days and night-less summer days.

... and about my experience, in details

:
Actually I went to the car breaker for a single fan motor from a same year
and same model Xantia. They brought the complete set, two fan motors
with blades and the frame with the 3 relays

I said I may not have enough money for that and I don't intend to buy it all.
When I counted all the money (bank card was not accepted) it was 58.5 €
and for that money I got the whole item

.

I have replaced the first fan motor immediately and the second fan motor last August.
I still have the frame and 3 relays as spare parts.

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Here is a german french car spare parts link for you --> http://www.f-w-meisen.de/
I didn't try them but it looks to be a decent one.

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PS: Used parts always have their uncertainty, you don't exactly know how long they'll last

eurotrotter · Post by **eurotrotter** » 08 Mar 2011, 14:40

thanks for the tip, thats a great site fo rhte parts, thanks again!

one other question, is there any way of accessing the actual colling fan motors, without having to remove the entire fan housing etc, and radiator?

cos there are two screwsin teh centre of the fans on teh outside behind the grille, can one simply unscrew them to access to take the fan blades off and remove the electric motors?

one other question, someone suggestted giving the fans a hit of a hammer to get the little solenoids back in teh right positions, do you mean the fan blads in this case, or do you mean removing the electric motors themselves and giving them a tap of a hammer instead?

thanks again guys,
Ed

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 08 Mar 2011, 15:09

Nope, it will need to be Rads out the way, either tilted or removed, as the fan house is part of the slam panel...

When moved theres a gaping hole infront of the engine..

Paul

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 08 Mar 2011, 15:14

eurotrotter wrote:...
one other question, is there any way of accessing the actual colling fan motors, without having to remove the entire fan housing etc, and radiator?
...

I have replaced both fan motors without removing the bumper or the radiator.
MK2 Xantia with air condition.

You have to modify a 'tool' for that purpose. There are 3 nuts (10mm) behind the motor.
The tool must fit between the fan motor frame and the condenser.
I will try to make some pics for you.

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Edit: Here are some pics I have sent earlier for an other FCF member who was from Greece

This was what I bought:

One of the 10 mm nuts. They are usually rusted and lower one is worst.

See the depth of the nut where the tool must be able to reach it:

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 08 Mar 2011, 15:21

I have just read citroenxm's reply. I have tried that also, after reading similar instructions somewhere but...
when you tilt the radiator, you'll still have the condenser (in an air cond. model) which will prevent access to the nuts behind the fan motors.

Tip: Once you tilt the radiator, you can clean the dry leaves and mud collected between rad. and condenser, at the lower end there.
It'll prevent radiator corrosion.

_________________________________________________

Edit: This is how to modify your own 10 mm tool, cut & bend.

I just remove the 'finger protector' plastic cover from the front top.
The gap behind the fan motors is hardly enough for using a forefinger.
I rotate the modified ring wrench using both forefingers and finally the nut comes off.

- Before attempting to start the motor replacement job, squirt some plus gas on the nuts, by using a straw.
This will help removal process.
- Magnet tool would be helpful. Sometimes nut drops and rolls under the condenser.

eurotrotter · Post by **eurotrotter** » 08 Mar 2011, 22:46

thanks a million vertvega, i went to that Citroen specialist u found for me, hes a treasure, and he recommend someone who will refurb my rear axle, so thanks a mill for ur help on that

then going back to this coller fan issue, the specilist claims that there is a module that needs replacing, other than what lies behind the black box betweem the fans?!

he is not sure where it is located, but will research it and get back to me.

sorry this was the guy in the Citroen parts shop, do u guys agree with this, sounds like news to me being hoinest!?

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 09 Mar 2011, 07:46

Thanks eurotrotter, it's good to help other Citroen brothers

About the module replacement ... (?)
1. ) May be he meant the control module known as Bitron ???
That module is usually a long lasting one. If you make a FCF search with word ' bitron'
you'll find lots of articles and pics.
Location is under the left headlight (in mine).
Here's one thread where Clogzz added some pics.
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... ght=bitron

2.) Or the relays? The triangular relay box is seen in above pic.
and here's a closer look at it. You can find it from car breakers.

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 09 Mar 2011, 11:05

The Xsara 2000 may be a Mk II with multiplexing.
If so, it won’t have a Bitron, and the fans are controlled directly by the ECU.

From the ‘lufter fan probleme’ picture it’s obvious that the fan blades are accessible.
So, the motor that’s easiest to turn by hand is the one with the worn brushes.
Since the motors start when helped along with pen or pin, there is no electrical or electronic fault.

Try unscrewing the blades by screwing clockwise because the centre screw has a left-handed thread.
With the blades off, tap the motor all around to ‘reseat’ the brushes.
While you’re there, look into the feasibility of reaching the motor mountings from behind.

In this topic, an enlightened member fixed the same fault as yours with a hammer:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=34699

eurotrotter · Post by **eurotrotter** » 10 Mar 2011, 10:03

thanks cloggz, im gonna try that tonite and will spray them with wd 40 also in teh hope they will free out.

my car is a mk2 i think, if mark1 equals old skool headlights, no the bug eye ones .

my dash is also oldskool, i have teh electric window switches by the air vents up high, afaik the mk2 with multiplexing have the switchs down by the ashtray/gear lever, so i guess mins ia mark1 bases on this without multiplex wiring?

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 10 Mar 2011, 15:43

Your car is a late Mk I … what Citroen calls ‘constant evolution’.
The evolutions

were introduced progressively, like bug eyes first.
Last evolution was multiplexing, and that became the Mk II.

eurotrotter · Post by **eurotrotter** » 10 Mar 2011, 20:02

thank again cloggz, i have taken off the plastic covers, and gave teh bad motor a bang arounf of a hammer, and now all is ok!!

thanks very much for your support on this!

one thing that i have noticed though:

the 2 cooling fans come on at low speed when i switch the internal heater onto demister mode, regardless of what temperature the engine is at

any ideas why this is?

is it spose to do this??

thanks
ed

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 11 Mar 2011, 07:43

Yes, it’s supposed to do that because going to demister automatically turns on the air conditioning.
And when the aircon is on, both fans have to spin at low speed.

eurotrotter · Post by **eurotrotter** » 11 Mar 2011, 15:22

thanks cloggz, so teh air conditioning is activated as soon as the demister is on, regardless of whether the air conditioning button is on, on the dash or not?

i gave the cooling fan motor a bang of a ahmmer last nite ans so far so good, so fingers crossed, thanks for you support, again, and if we dont hear from each other further i wish youa great weekend

all the best

ed

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 11 Mar 2011, 16:23

Yes Ed, going to windscreen demist turns on the air conditioning even when the aircon dash switch is off.
If you then return from demist to face or floor vents, the aircon will turn off.

If you turn on the dash aircon switch while you’re on demist, the aircon will stay on even when you return to face or floor vents.
Obviously if you turn on the dash switch from face or floor vents, the aircon will come on until you switch it off again at the dash switch, but it will return to aircon in the demist position.

Your hammering job on the cooling fan motor may be good for months.

You did well to sort all that in a weeks’ time.

Best wishes, and have a nice weekend.

evilclive · Post by **evilclive** » 11 Mar 2011, 18:04

I've got a similar problem - flashing red light + stop, on a 2000 Xantia HDi 90 with air con.

The fans and temperature gauge seem to be behaving - if I leave the engine running standing still, the fans start running slowly and speed up as things get warmer. The three relays in the front all seem to be behaving. Where next to look?

(no bitron, I've only found the one temperature sensor)