Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

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cachaciero
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by cachaciero » 24 Mar 2011, 19:19

Well Kevs posted twice on this so about time for an update.
So far I have only used one can of EGR cleaner but even this limited treatment seems to have produced positive results. My cautious estimate is that as far as I can see it has improved my fuel consumption by about 2MPG. Having done some careful observation over the daily work route of about 14 miles each way my daily consumption on this route ranges between 32&34 for the round trip, up from 29 to 32.
Last weekend I had a big surprise, this on a trip to NW London (NW10) from Haywards Heath 12 miles country B road up and down M23 M25 M4 and then London! on arrival the trip computer said 41 MPG ! I found that hard to believe given it's consumption record the number for the complete round trip was 39 which I felt was quite good. However checking the instantaeous read out of fuel consumption on the MWay the numbers appeared to be quite a bit lower than I remember them from 18 months ago, suspect that the carbon load in the FAP is beginning to get a little excessive.

cachaciero

KevMayer
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by KevMayer » 26 Mar 2011, 18:17

I've had a nagging doubt about whether my EGR valve is clean after using the EGR3 spray, especially since the Wynns site advises you to strip down the EGR and give it a manual clean if your car has done a high mileage prior to using the spray.

So, today I removed my EGR valve for inspection and it was clean.

The pipework to the inlet manifold had some build up of black oily deposits but was free flowing when I blew down it and so I cleaned the pipe too.

I gave the EGR valve a spray with EGR3 and the internals were shining bright when I put it all back together.

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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by corsehf » 28 Mar 2011, 09:54

Having seen at first hand, the gunge that collects in and around the inlet areas and the butterfly flaps (2.2) i cannot believe a spray can remove such crap (which measured 3mm thick on my butterflys) but i will go with the recommendation on this thread and have ordered a couple of cans of EGR3.
However, a conversation with a fellow Forum Member has got me thinking again (cannot be good!!). His car is DPF free (and cat free) as was my old one and he has also used this EGR3 spray with good results BUT he did mention that it did blow a whole load of crap out of the exhaust which is a good thing whern you are Car and DPF free but if these filters are still in place, i am assuming that all the gunge and crap that is being cleaned out will end up in either the cat or DPF with a risk of premature blocking???

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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by KevMayer » 28 Mar 2011, 16:34

I also thought about where the gunge/crap would end up but decided that it would go into the cylinders and be burnt in the combustion process and so would change state to somtheing which the FAP can deal with.

Luckily, it looks like everything is ok. I didn't get any alarms warning of a blocked FAP and my fuel consumption and performance appear to have improved.

I always got 36 mpg, but now appear to be getting 38 to 39 mpg and that's me working it out not the onboard computer (I use 1 gallon=4.546 litres so to some accuracy). Or, I used to get almost exactly 8 miles per litre. Now I get 8.5 or more miles per litre.

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Paul-R
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by Paul-R » 28 Mar 2011, 19:05

I bought a can of EGR3 for my 2.0 110 C5 and used half of it on Saturday. I have to say that so far it doesn't seem to have made a difference but I've made a trip to Bolton and back since. The real test will be if the MPG gets better.

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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by cachaciero » 29 Mar 2011, 20:40

Well re my suspicions about the carbon load in the FAP being high had a look with the Lexia today, very surprised last regen was 64 kilometrs ago and the pressure drop across the FAP at idle was 0.0mBars and 5.5 @2K revs which I reckon is pretty good and way better than I expected cause the last time I looked it was considerably higher, trouble is I can't remember by how much :-( So my poor MWay figures need a rethink.
Maybe I need to do a very close check on the consumption as measured by mileage and tank quantities in and the amount that the computer believes it has put through the engine any significant difference would tend to indicate injector calibration.

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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by KevMayer » 29 Mar 2011, 22:13

I had a nagging doubt about how clean was my EGR valve. I took it off and it was ok.

I now have a concern about how clean is my inlet manifold. I'd really like to take it off and clean it manually, but, this would involve removing the injectorswhich makes it a big job. I'm not so concerned about removing the injectors it's the replacement which would haveto be closely controlled.

Dirty inlet manifolds on diesels appears to be a bigger problem than I ever imagined. Take a look at this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA

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Xaccers
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by Xaccers » 29 Mar 2011, 22:29

That looks very tempting, now, how to convince Jim to let me borrow his airline and blow torch...

cachaciero
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by cachaciero » 30 Mar 2011, 08:39

KevMayer wrote:I had a nagging doubt about how clean was my EGR valve. I took it off and it was ok.

I now have a concern about how clean is my inlet manifold. I'd really like to take it off and clean it manually, but, this would involve removing the injectorswhich makes it a big job. I'm not so concerned about removing the injectors it's the replacement which would haveto be closely controlled.

Dirty inlet manifolds on diesels appears to be a bigger problem than I ever imagined. Take a look at this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA
Well my understanding is that that is what the EGR cleaner is supposed to do, because the problem will extend further than just the inlet manifold there being quite a length of inlet tract in the head itself.

Maybe a rotary wire brush on a flexible shaft ?

cachaciero

corsehf
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by corsehf » 30 Mar 2011, 13:34

KevMayer wrote:I had a nagging doubt about how clean was my EGR valve. I took it off and it was ok.

I now have a concern about how clean is my inlet manifold. I'd really like to take it off and clean it manually, but, this would involve removing the injectorswhich makes it a big job. I'm not so concerned about removing the injectors it's the replacement which would haveto be closely controlled.

Dirty inlet manifolds on diesels appears to be a bigger problem than I ever imagined. Take a look at this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA
I found getting the injectors out easy but i did soak the stems in PlusGas.
My only concern would be trying to hold the cams in place as they tend to have a tendency to jump out once you remove the inlet manifold.
The inlet manifold on my previous 2.2 was just disgusting - with the gunge measuring 3mm thick in the inside of the manifold and on both sides of the butterfly flaps.
I cannot see (personally) how this EGR3 spray will remove the stuff (even though i have bought a can to try!!) and the 'Youtube' link looks good stuff but you dont see a 'before' and 'after' image.

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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by KevMayer » 31 Mar 2011, 20:35

I've found in my garage a large aerosol can of 'Wynns Fuel Injection Intake & Carb Cleaner'. It says on the can that you can inject into the intake system, carburetor, plenum chamber and into the inlet manifold, so, do you think this spray would do the same as the EGR3 spray?

The carb cleaner is a lot cheaper, but it's very flammable. Maybe it could be too explosive? Although, you can use it on petrol engines. It may be ok.

The carb cleaner is certainly very penetrating and a great remover of deposits.

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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by cachaciero » 31 Mar 2011, 23:35

KevMayer wrote:I've found in my garage a large aerosol can of 'Wynns Fuel Injection Intake & Carb Cleaner'. It says on the can that you can inject into the intake system, carburetor, plenum chamber and into the inlet manifold, so, do you think this spray would do the same as the EGR3 spray?

.
Think I would treat with care. The deposits left by petrol in a carb or petrol injection system is as I remember a slightly sticky gummy residue not the same kind of stuff at all. The higher volatility might cause some sever pre-ignition as well.

Probably a good idea is to see what it does to the carbon on the outlet end of the exhaust pipe, spray a bit in cold and see if it has a significant loosening effect. If it looks promising then spraying it into the inlet of a cold none running engine and leaving it to soften up the rubbish for a while might be productive, also has the advantage that by the time you start the engine the most volatile elements will have evaporated to some degree so the amount of pre-ignition should be less.

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corsehf
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by corsehf » 05 Apr 2011, 22:59

Just a note regarding the Wynns EGR3 spray.
I know some of you have been spraying the stuff into the intake just before the MAF sensor or just after.
On the set of instructions that accompanied my can it does say NOT to spray it through the intercooler meaning if you spray via the MAF it has to pass through the intercooler.
Don't know why but just thought i would mention it.

Jury is still out on my first can!

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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by cachaciero » 06 Apr 2011, 19:41

Ah! a case of DID NOT RTFM :-( but I wonder why what difference could it make.
I wonder if the problem is not so much the intercooler but the fact it's in the high pressure side of the turbo, forcing through turbo seals destruction of oil film demise of turbo? don't know but probably pays to heed the destructions ;-)

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corsehf
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Some thoughts on the 2.2 C5 EGR SYSTEM (Long)

Post by corsehf » 07 Apr 2011, 10:06

cachaciero wrote:Ah! a case of DID NOT RTFM :-( but I wonder why what difference could it make.
I wonder if the problem is not so much the intercooler but the fact it's in the high pressure side of the turbo, forcing through turbo seals destruction of oil film demise of turbo? don't know but probably pays to heed the destructions ;-)

cachaciero
Does not mention the turbo at all - only the intercooler?
Maybe any crap loosened may or would be trapped in the intercooler subsequentally blocking it???
Cant see the solvent damaging it.