C3 HDi Get up and Go got up and went

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JamesQB
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Post by JamesQB »

I removed the resonator after taking the turbo out, as it's easier to get to the 2nd flange bolt once removed from the car. After taking these pics, I did remove it before dismantling the turbo which was a simple case of undoing the two bolts. What I didn't do, and might still do, is seal where that box joins on to the turbo, as per the post above, with silicone sealant.

I hadn't read your post properly and missed that you want access to the variable vane mechanism. You'll have some view of it once you remove the turbo in the way I did, but nothing like you would if you removed the mechanism from the exhaust.

I didn't want the variable vane mechanism out, just the turbo, so chose the best method to remove turbo with the least fuss. Literally took me less than 10 minutes to reattach to car. But mind you tighten the oil supply pipe to the correct torque, as simply 'tight' isn't good enough, as I found.

What I don't know is if, once the turbo is removed in the way I did it, you can undo any bolts to release the variable vane mechanism from the housing which is connected to the exhaust. It must come apart from it so you can get proper access to the mechanism, but I didn't study it at the time because the vanes seemed to be moving freely and I had enough to do with stripping down a turbo for the first time and emailing upteen specialists for help and advice on doing so.

I took lots of pics during the turbo job as I planned to do a guide of some sorts, but never got around to it. Took ages and I had to mark everything very carefully since I wasn't having it rebalanced professionally. To my wonder, it worked perfectly. Dunno how long it'd have worked for though, cos a month later 3 injectors decided to suffer huge back-leakage, causing the car to be dumped on the in-laws' drive, where it remains until I decide to either set fire to it, or sell it as spares/repair on eBay. I only know I'm not paying £1000 for new injectors, nor £130 each for overhaul by Delphi, for the sake of a tiny metal control valve piece which wears prematurely and for no obvious reason (water ingress, swarf, cheap fuel, etc). And it's the authorised Delphi specialists that told me this.
Honda Civic 2.2 CDTi 2006
Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi 2007
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

I don't honestly know if there is a problem with crud on the vanes - I only know that the car went better after I had (a) cleaned the MAF sensor and (b) worked the vane actuator up and down a few times.

I'm basically going on the theory that Clean Is Better Than Dirty at the moment, and, obviously, checking for good sealing.

I haven't taken any of the grille/rad mounting off - I was hoping that the only thing I'd need to get to down there was the oil drain pipe, and that it would be attached to the turbo with a Jubilee clip (as shown in the Haynes BoL) but I can't see underneath and it doesn't feel like a J-C...could it be a single-use clip of some sort?

The resonator....weird! According to Haynes you can release that second bolt (except they call it a stud) after rotating the resonator on it. Damned if I can see how - there doesn't seem to be any give until you've loosened it. Chicken...egg...
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

As usual, Haynes and correct terminology are strangers..

The stud is a captive bolt, the resonator is only hooked on to it (which is one reason that it will leak - the other being the seal is cr@p)

And they refer to the vacuum device on the top as the wastegate actuator...when it seems not to have one. The manual also has a picture supposedly showing underneath the 16V's turbo, which includes a horizontal actuator that shouldn't be there (presumably because the picture actually shows the 8V turbo).

And I bought the book as a maintenance aid! Glad they don't do travel guides....
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
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JamesQB
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My Cars: Citroen Xantia 1.8 - I miss this car a lot.
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Post by JamesQB »

I found the same thing with the Haynes manual. I ended up putting it back in the boot of the car and working on the fly. It does show the 8V turbo, and it is incorrect calling it the wastegate actuator when it doesn't use a wastegate.

Going by memory, the drain pipe on the turbo was held in place by a jubilee clip, but I seem to recall that I could only get to it once I'd split the turbo from the exhaust side, and then tilted the turbo unit as much as I could, and then it was tricky to get to, and hard to put back on - but do-able.

I preferred to remove the resonator once the turbo was off the car, so I could properly undo the bolt, and tighten it up afterwards.

Bear in mind that the turbo solenoid valve can become leaky and cause intermittent boost problems, and is something that I changed after overhauling the turbo. I think it was around the £40 mark and is on the back of the engine. I worked with a mirror to see what my hands were doing, and prayed my back would forgive me.

While my turbo was in the process of seizing, it gave intermittent boost, until it seized completely and couldn't be turned by hand even with lots of force, then there was no boost ever. After the overhaul, and changing the solenoid valve, it was probably the best it'd been since buying the car, and boost was apparent earlier in the rev range, except for some rare times when it came in late again. I'm now wondering if sealing the resonator connection as per the other post on this topic might've cured that last niggle.
Honda Civic 2.2 CDTi 2006
Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi 2007
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

I have managed to get to the clip on the oil drain, and it was a jubilee, but facing backwards (which is why it "felt" wrong!)

Agree with you that it would be daft to reassemble it without improving the sealing of the resonator to the turbo - I'm guessing a decent silicone would be good enough as it is on the cool side of the system.

Your point about the vac.valve is well-made. If a clean and seal doesn't work, that was going to be my next port of call, the EGR after that...
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

Is this the right vac valve for mine, please...anyone?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Citroen-C3-Vacuum ... 27b4bd1fb8

Can't see where the valve is mentioned in Haynes...unless it's in some other section unrelated to the turbo...!?!
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

Oooooh....it's all back together again. The turbo internals had no perceptible end-float or radial slop, and the exhaust impeller was sooty but not fouled, so I sprayed carb-cleaner on it, which washed most of the deposits off, then into the variable vane housing (on the principle that it would do no harm) put some silicone on the resonator joint and slung it all back together.

Runs no worse than before, and I fancy that the bottom-end pick-up is improved. Fingers crossed (again!).

Here's a weird thing, though...the odometer is now reading Average MPG....but I don't think I've got a trip computer!! WTF???
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
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JamesQB
Posts: 375
Joined: 13 Aug 2003, 18:01
Location: North Wales, United Kingdom
My Cars: Citroen Xantia 1.8 - I miss this car a lot.
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Post by JamesQB »

That's not the right valve. Amongst the 1000s of pics on this computer, there are some of the electrovalve (as Citroen call it) which I took of the old one.

The same type of electrovalve is used to control the EGR valve - it's identical - and that's where you'll find it mentioned in the Haynes manual. There is no mention of it in relation to the turbo.

I'll try to find a pic and then edit this post and add it.

p.s. my wife drove the C3 the most and doesn't recall a trip computer function for MPG either... maybe there is one and you've somehow managed to find it? We never had the owner's manual for the car, but I seem to remember reading somewhere of a trip computer but I never even knew what the two buttons with weird symbols either side of the clock did. I hardly ever drove it so didn't have time to fiddle.
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

Now completely baffled - I switched on the ignition, hit the Trip Reset button and it toggled the MPG off, replaced it with the mileometer reading, then for every press afterwards, toggled between total and trip mileage....
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

After a good few miles under the belt, and hauling up hills on the A303 (and there are a few) at a fair lick, I'm pretty satisfied that the turbo was just gummed-up. If anyone else knows the section of the 303 going East past Solstice Park, I think taking that at 70* with enough throttle in hand to continue accelerating if required sounds good enough for a 1.4!

Makes you wonder how many turbos have been replaced at immense cost when all they needed was a strip and clean.

Much kudos and thanks to James for his invaluable assistance with the strip-down procedure, and good luck with getting your own motor back on the road!

*ish...
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
steelcityuk
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Post by steelcityuk »

It's always worth a check of the EGR valve when such issues arise.

Steve.
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

That and the MAP sensor were next in line for examination! I decided the vacuum valve was just that much harder to get to, and would have to wait.
List of Afflictions...
C3 1.4 HDi ,XPic 2.0 HDi,Peugeot 306 TD,Renault Megane 1.6,AX 1.5D,AX 1.4D,Xantia 1.9TD ,XPic 2.0HDi
Xantia 1.9TD ,BX TZD ,BX TZD ,XM 2.1SD
BX GTi 8v,BX GTi 16v S1,BX 16TRS
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