C3 HDi Get up and Go got up and went

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fred1
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Post by fred1 »

Hi,

Much of the engine control is actually carried out by vacuum actuation of valves and the turbo variable vane

Suggest you check the rubber vacuum pipe for disconnected ends and split pipes.

I am aware of loose pipes causing similar symtoms to yours.

regards

John
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CitTone
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Post by CitTone »

I think that the important pipes are in good nick, but I'll give 'em a tug just for certainty!
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Post by JamesQB »

CitTone wrote:Well...inlet duct off, and the turbo seems to be turning by finger pressure, and there doesn't appear to be much play to be felt. Should it spin freely or just turn when twiddled?

Fair amount of oil, but that seems to be coming from the crank breather mainly (and the seal on the breather-to-inlet is leaking...another story I guess) and hopefully not the turbo shaft seals...how would I tell?
With my C3 of same model and vintage, the turbo started to give intermittent boost. I believe it was beginning to seize and spinning more slowly, and sometimes erratically even during the same journey. Eventually there was no boost at all, at any time. I then found the turbo compressor wheel wouldn't spin at all. Long story cut short: it was coked up behind the turbine wheel, locking the shaft solidly in place. I had to completely dismantle and clean it, marking everything carefully. Worked a treat.

It should spin very freely as the shaft glides on oil. A good flick with your finger should put it in motion and it should stay moving at least a couple of revolutions or more. I think the coke was applying resistance and sometimes causing it to stick entirely, for a while, until it jammed completely.

Just so you know, the turbo vacuum solenoid valve is known to become leaky and fail, and that will affect boost as it controls the turbo's variable vane mechanism. Hopefully the dirty MAF was the problem though.
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Post by myglaren »

CitTone wrote:Not sure how you could connect the MAF to the engine without it being connected to the filter - the duct is moulded to fit, and not very flexible.
Very different from the way my C5 is connected then.
Image



Not a good picture, I'm sure there is a better one but it could take a lifetime to find it.
The MAF is connected to the back end of the airbox lid and can be easily detached and left in place on the hose feeding the engine. Two torx screws hold it on.
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Post by CitTone »

You obviously have a bigger, longer flexible thing compared to mine - makes all the difference.

What?

Hose...I meant the air hose....!
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Post by CitTone »

JamesQB wrote: It should spin very freely as the shaft glides on oil. A good flick with your finger should put it in motion and it should stay moving at least a couple of revolutions or more. I think the coke was applying resistance and sometimes causing it to stick entirely, for a while, until it jammed completely.
Certainly doesn't spin freely - just turns when twiddled. I assume that it's the exhaust side that was coked up on yours. Perhaps just reaching in and twisting the shaft freed it up enough for it to start working again, and the MAF was a red herring.

Do they come to pieces without having to detach them from the car first?
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Post by Corkish »

Hi,

I had some of your symptoms particularly the variable boost.

I fixed ours by disconnecting the black plastic component that fits
between the turbo and the intercooler. The internal seal where it connects to the turbo had hardened. There were light oil deposits around this connection.

If you disconnect the intercooler connection first followed by the 10mm bolt on the turbo flange that is accessible. it will rotate and come free.
(There is a small plastic lug that holds it to the engine.)

I had to disconnect a coolant pipe and the turbo vacuum line as well.

I stripped it, cleaned it and when replacing put a very thin bead of high temperature sealant around the join. It is used by heating engineers to seal flues etc.

Absolutely transformed our car back to normal.

May be worth checking. We had no faults logged for this issue.

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Post by fred1 »

Hi,

I have seen adverts/posts on other forum for a kit/fluid that enables you to clean your turbo in situ by soaking it in a fluid. Kit uncludes a sealing cover for one end.

If I remember correctly it was associated with a vw golf site.

Might be worth look about onbthe internet, could save some work!

regards

John
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Post by CitTone »

That would be INNOTEC TURBO CLEANER, I guess. You were right, John - first forum that came up was for MkIV Golf.

Well, certainly cheaper than a complete dismantle or a new turbo! I'll search for a few unsolicited testimonials before buying, though.
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Post by CitTone »

My latest suspect is sticky vanes. I worked the vane actuator a few times when checking hoses and linkages and now wonder if that just loosened the crud enough to free the mechanism up.

This would tally with my daughter's description of its behaviour as having an initial hesitation before then picking up more or less normally - the vanes stick until the actuator pressure overcomes the resistance and then they flip open, rather than opening smoothly.
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Post by CitTone »

Looking at the Innotec cleaning kit, it seems you need to be able to get the exhaust connection off far enough to cover the turbo outlet with a plate of some sort so that you can effectively flood the exhaust impeller chamber with goop.

Is that possible with the C3? It looks pretty tight under there!
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Post by CitTone »

Well - Innotec don't seem to be too good at answering emails. I sent a request for info e.g. do they know of successful use on C3s and have heard not a word back, not even a "don't know".

Can anyone say if it is possible to get into the exhaust-side chamber of that turbo without removing it? I suspect that the cat may have to be dropped, but I'm not positive.

Haynes BoL is, as usual, unhelpful as it assumes that the only thing you can do with the turbo is remove and replace.
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Post by CitTone »

Also - I may be getting confused here....is the actuator on the TOP of the turbo, with a pull-rod running vertically in front, the wastegate or the vane control?
There is a horizontal actuator underneath the turbo which I thought was the wastegate control because it occupies the same position as the one on the 8-valve version.
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Post by JamesQB »

The turbo on the DV4TED4 engine doesn't use a wastegate, it uses variable vane instead. Basically, instead of a wastegate venting gasses to control impeller speed, the variable vanes twist, creating a bigger or smaller gap between them for the exhaust gas to flow through, which effectively speeds up or slows down the gasses.

The actuator has a flexible pipe on the top which is a vacuum supply from the turbo solenoid valve. There's a rod going vertically down from this actuator which controls movement of the vanes.

When I removed and overhauled the turbo, I left the exhaust-side cover and variable vane mechanism in place on the car, as I didn't want to remove cat, etc. To do that, I undid the middle circular clamp which holds the two halves of the turbo unit together.

In the pics below, I've marked where the locking collar goes which joins exhaust side and variable vane mechanism to turbo body, and in the other picture, where a huge buildup of carbon was, which was causing the turbo to stick. I had to dismantle completely to get it all out, as it went under the gold disc and into the oil seal area.

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Post by CitTone »

That's brilliant, James! Just what I wanted to know. I see you also left the resonator attached - I'm guessing that it's easier than taking it off!
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