Upgrade to 170 BHP with big fuel savings ?

[Peter.N.]

I agree....modern Diesel engines are amazing & so are the dealers / garage at taking money off you to plug it in when they go wrong!

Forget all that fancy black magic & the odd extra mile per gallon as you are going to pay for it in the long run if only in diagnostic fees!

You want a nice 1.9 TD XUD engine....they go for ever & you can fix them yourself!

I have been avoiding common rail engines like the plague and have stuck to my 2.1 XMs like glue, 14 years I have been running them, I think they are the best thing since sliced bread - but, there don't appear to be any more left, the last 2.1 manual estate I saw for sale at a sensible price was over two years ago and I am still runnng it, but I needed a replacement for my wifes car and after considerable research I bought a 406 Hdi, after saying I would never have one

The reasons are these, quite a number of people have reported on the reliability of 2.0 110 bhp engine and this is born out by the fact that there a a number for sale with over 300,000 miles on the clock, that in itself is a recomendation to me, having driven it, I like it and the fuel consumption is amazing, its averaging around 50 mpg. Although this particular engine is proving durable I don't believe this is true of all common rail engines.

Just in case, I have bought a Lexia - when I have worked out how to use it

Peter

[XMV6 sadist]

Going from 236lb to 351lb citroen/PSA/ford have been playing with the injection (lastest generation piezo injectors with more nozzles) higher injection pressure (1800->2000), new ECU with more processing for better maps and the turbo charging. You certainly won't get those sort of gains from a just software upgrade.

[citroenxm]

Just in case, I have bought a Lexia - when I have worked out how to use it

Peter

Ah ha, looks like Lexia Turtorials are in the need then Peter

What amazed me Peter is you went straight in there at around - what 185k on the clock?? My taxi man's Xantia is now on 220k with no problems at all.. (Though he has had to change the High pressure Engine Pump)..

Glad its prooved good,


Paul

[Peter.N.]

I looked at quite a few before I bought it Paul but I am really pleased with this one despite its 190k, the clutch pedal is a bit high up so I suspect its worn but it doesn't slip, the only actual fault I have found is the flap motor on the heater, the engine is as sweet as a nut.

I bought an old Dell laptop for £50 to use with the Lexia and its that I'm having trouble with at the moment, its very s-l-o-w took an hour to load but I apparantly loaded the wrong disc, it was an old programme and was asking for my dealer credentials, I have had three attempts to romove it without success, the fact that I don't speak french isn't helping.

Peter

[steelcityuk]

Just to stir a bit more into the mix, the new Fiat Twin Air petrol engine doesn't have a butterfly in it's induction system either. So what with that and direct injection petrols there's a bit of technology swapping going on.

But the Twin Air does throttle the air, it uses the inlet valves to restrict the air flow and maintain the equivalent reduced pressure in the cylinders, so it is not like a diesel. Fundamentally, petrol just won't ignite (or burn cleanly) at very lean mixtures, but diesel will.

I didn't say it didn't throttle the air I said it didn't have a butterfly. I was going to elaborate about reducing pumping losses but there's not much point if I'm going to be misinterpreted.

Steve.

[citroenxm]

I looked at quite a few before I bought it Paul but I am really pleased with this one despite its 190k, the clutch pedal is a bit high up so I suspect its worn but it doesn't slip, the only actual fault I have found is the flap motor on the heater, the engine is as sweet as a nut.

I bought an old Dell laptop for £50 to use with the Lexia and its that I'm having trouble with at the moment, its very s-l-o-w took an hour to load but I apparantly loaded the wrong disc, it was an old programme and was asking for my dealer credentials, I have had three attempts to romove it without success, the fact that I don't speak french isn't helping.

Peter

I bought a Dell Lattitude D510 for it.. The laptop (From a fellow fourm member) has been amazing, I bought 3 of them in the end, all Latitudes from him, they were too good for Lexia use, so I bought a Toshiba Portege smaller thing, which is also about 1ghz processor, and its perfect for the job...

I think I paid 20 quid for the Toshiba, and 25 for a new battery.

As for Cars, HDi clutch friction plates seem to have a long life but the Release bearings fail prematurley, in a common way!!

You'll know, because it will start making strange noises, whining, squeeling etc etc... There not bad to do, you install them in a "Push Clutch" format, then once the box is on, mate the release bearing with the pressure plate AFTER assembly.

It will always be light as its hydraulic clutch exactly like the 2.5 XM's..

Paul

Paul

[steelcityuk]

You've got you now Peter, no escape from the HDi club once you owned one.

Even better with a remap, better low throttle torque for floating along.

Steve.

[KevMayer]

That torque figure of 351 should be NM and not Pounds Feet.

351 NM works out as 259 LBSFT.

So, the torque has only increased from 236 to 259 LBSFT.

[fifth_cit]

That torque figure of 351 should be NM and not Pounds Feet.

351 NM works out as 259 LBSFT.

So, the torque has only increased from 236 to 259 LBSFT.

I do appologise for my error.
I picked the figures up from autotrader technical data as it was the only place I could think of where both the 140 & 160 bhp models would be displayed.
I just checked it out on Citroen and they quote 340 nm which equates to 251 ft lbs. an increase in torque of about 6%

Keith

[KevMayer]

Quite a few sites with engine data get pounds feet and nm mixed up. I often look at www.parkers.co.uk and they do it a lot.

[bencowell]

The newest 2.2 HDI now has 200bhp and 340lbft. Not on sale in the UK though. The 3.0 HDI has 240bhp and 340lbft, but the torque comes in at a lower rpm.

The Citroen 3.0 HDI has its power and torque limited. In the rear wheel drive Jag, the same engine produces 30bhp and 100lbft more.

The C6 has worse fuel consumption than the Jag.

[bencowell]

Scrap those numbers.

The French C5 site says the torque on the 2.0 160, 2.2 200 and the 3.0 are all 450Nm.

The UK site says the 2.0 160 is 340Nm.

There's been plenty of mistakes on the Citroen specifications over the years!

[westonflyer]

I improved the BHP and economy of my recently PX'd 2002 C5 2L HDI by having a 'DPT' module fitted by a local DPT dealer (Google 'DPT' and it will give you all the info you need right down to your specific model and nearest dealer). In my case, the BHP was increased from 110 to 133 BHP and I can confirm that I experienced between 8 to plus 10% increase in fuel economy. The module and its harness were removed just before replacing the vehicle and it will shortly be fitted into my 2008 C5 Tourer 2L HDI 138BHP. The module is expensive, but you get what you pay for - and this one does the biz IMO.

I was reading RichardW's post re "The Futures Diesel" and decided to check out the fuel consumption figures for the latest 170 BHP C5 Tourer.

The first thing that I noticed is the road tax bracket has reduced from £155 to £110 per year and the Consumption figures are :-

________________140 BHP___170 BHP___% Saving
Urban____________35.3_______41.5______17.5
Extra Urban_______56.5_______64.2______13.6
Combined_________46.3_______53.3______15.1

So 2 questions. How have they done that ? and what are the chances of getting mine upgraded ?

I have to take my car in for a safety recall on Wednesday and intend asking for a software upgrade. I know the answer will be no but it will be interesting to see their response.

I will of course keep you posted.

Keith

[Peter.N.]

Probably smaller throttle opening = weaker mixture + higher gearing = less revs.