Anders, what I did was to reverse the rear of the car onto some ramps because 'playing' with height correctors whilst under the car without them would result in a very flat head and is a VERY BIG NO-NO.
Any adjustment to height correctors has to be done with the engine running.
I measured the 'present' height of the car body to the floor, then disconnected the height corrector from the rear anti-roll bar (one pinch-bolt) and manual height adjusting rod. I then used 'mole' grips on the bracket to which the rod attatches to, and raised the rear of the car by the 23mm mentioned. When I achieved this measurement I then placed a drill bit, 7mm I think in a hole in the height corrector to hold the new setting and tightened the two bolts, job done!
I don't know if you have any experience of adjusting height correctors but they work by way of when you apply pressure to them they pump/release fluid, then take time to settle. It took about 10 minutes to get it right.
The car still has the normal height adjustment in the car, its just that when set at 'normal' the car is higher at the rear.
Height correctors are automatic when set to normal ride height, but the automatic part is overidden when you move the height lever in the car by manual rods.
What I did notice when I was making the adjustment was that the small piece of plastic that connects the two ball joints between the height adjuster and anti-roll was rather soft with a degree of play, as if it had aged. The effect of this would that the height corrector would not be able to 'detect' minor height errors. Writing this has now reminded me that I best enquire about some new ones!
comfort spheres
Moderator: RichardW
Richard -
No problem adjusting heights on my CX & BX'es [:)]
What I actually tried to ask for was where your Xantia's "normal" drive height position is now located with reference to Max & Min height settings on the suspension of the rear.
The usual rule of thumb to test for a Hydraulic Citroen's correct drive height - is to calculate the difference between the lowest & highest height - at any chassis reference point. You then take half this difference & add to lowest height - then you have the correct normal drive height setting for adjusting the height corrector linkage - in terms of allowed excursions for the suspension.
My interest is then if your Xantia's height at rear now is OFFSET - with respect to the above general rule [?]
- or - even more interesting - if your Xantia's rear height now suddenly APPLY to the above general rule [8D]
No problem adjusting heights on my CX & BX'es [:)]
What I actually tried to ask for was where your Xantia's "normal" drive height position is now located with reference to Max & Min height settings on the suspension of the rear.
The usual rule of thumb to test for a Hydraulic Citroen's correct drive height - is to calculate the difference between the lowest & highest height - at any chassis reference point. You then take half this difference & add to lowest height - then you have the correct normal drive height setting for adjusting the height corrector linkage - in terms of allowed excursions for the suspension.
My interest is then if your Xantia's height at rear now is OFFSET - with respect to the above general rule [?]
- or - even more interesting - if your Xantia's rear height now suddenly APPLY to the above general rule [8D]
-
Richard Gallagher
- Posts: 803
- Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 02:36
- Location: South Bucks
- My Cars:
Anders, sorry but having only had experience of Xantias I was not aware that other Citroens were set half-way between high and low, because on the Xantia Citroen quote specific measurements of 121mm to 144mm depending on the age of the car.
This figure is measured by way of working out the radius of the wheel, then subtracting that figure from the height of the body to the ground near to the bump stop. The difference should be either 121/144mm.
Unless there has been a previous problem with the body height all that is needed in reality, is to note the position of the body from a point decided by yourself to the floor, then lift/push down the car several times whilst giving it time to settle and then taking the average measurement as your starting point. Record that figure then make your adjustment accordingly again giving the car time to settle at its 'new' height before tightening up bolts etc.
If at a later date you wish to return the car to its original setting, do the same in reverse.
As to whether the height is now offset or not I really don't know, but it does improve the ride on the Xantia as it allows greater wheel travel/compression. The interesting bit about the extra travel gained is that as the suspension arm is nowhere near the bump stop, the first part of travel is noticeably softer than when the height is set lower/'normal'.
Whether it will work on other cars I don't have a clue but I worked on the priciple that Citroen must have done it for a reason, then because I have two VSX Xantias I had a point of reference to compare each car with.
I hope this explains what/why, if not please feel free to ask more.
This figure is measured by way of working out the radius of the wheel, then subtracting that figure from the height of the body to the ground near to the bump stop. The difference should be either 121/144mm.
Unless there has been a previous problem with the body height all that is needed in reality, is to note the position of the body from a point decided by yourself to the floor, then lift/push down the car several times whilst giving it time to settle and then taking the average measurement as your starting point. Record that figure then make your adjustment accordingly again giving the car time to settle at its 'new' height before tightening up bolts etc.
If at a later date you wish to return the car to its original setting, do the same in reverse.
As to whether the height is now offset or not I really don't know, but it does improve the ride on the Xantia as it allows greater wheel travel/compression. The interesting bit about the extra travel gained is that as the suspension arm is nowhere near the bump stop, the first part of travel is noticeably softer than when the height is set lower/'normal'.
Whether it will work on other cars I don't have a clue but I worked on the priciple that Citroen must have done it for a reason, then because I have two VSX Xantias I had a point of reference to compare each car with.
I hope this explains what/why, if not please feel free to ask more.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">... having only had experience of Xantias ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
... and I have only experience with CX & BX.
Then I guess there is large riscs that I may confuse matters....
Anyway it seems clear that your (earlier) Xantia has gained from the new setting. Having a Xantia ('94) owner visiting us now & then - I've allways wondered why this car seemed low at the rear - but the owner is very happy with his Xantia - not a car-tech oriented guy.
... and I have only experience with CX & BX.
Then I guess there is large riscs that I may confuse matters....
Anyway it seems clear that your (earlier) Xantia has gained from the new setting. Having a Xantia ('94) owner visiting us now & then - I've allways wondered why this car seemed low at the rear - but the owner is very happy with his Xantia - not a car-tech oriented guy.
Finally got round to measuring the ride heigh using the procedure in Haynes, it looked okay and I'm usually pretty good at judging it, spotted my original bx was a little low previously, confirmed by measuring it. Anyway first out of curiosity measured max, min and normal height at front wheel arch and this should interest Anders in that normal was approx 11mm below mid point. Then did the proper measuring as best I could as I had no way of raising the car although access didn't seem too bad. Results: front is riding 13mm low rear is riding 10mm low, Anders if ride height was spot on I'd say mid normal ride height would be mid point. Technically the rear is just within tollerance but as it could be 17mm higher and just within tollerance at the other end of the scale I consider it low. I'm over the moon and will probably delay having the ride height corrected just to prolong the anticipation of the increase in ride quality that should result.
Mark_sp
Mark_sp
-
tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
Mark & Anders
I have some technical papers about XM front struts, where their length in different height positions is also stated. Normal position is 5 mm under the middle point between lowest and highest position.
Since Xantia front struts are very similar (unlike BX front struts), I think it's the same on the Xantia.
I'm not quite sure about the rear, because Xantia has bigger and softer bump stops than previous Citroen vehicles, probably acting as 'supplemental springs', like in other newer cars with conventional suspension.
Xantia MkII 1.8 16V I've test driven last time was riding about 1.5 cm low (2 cm below the midpoint) on the front, leaving only about 5 cm of strut travel for compression, but didn't feel any touching of bump stops - the ride was very smooth, different, but better than in my BX with GS spheres.
I have some technical papers about XM front struts, where their length in different height positions is also stated. Normal position is 5 mm under the middle point between lowest and highest position.
Since Xantia front struts are very similar (unlike BX front struts), I think it's the same on the Xantia.
I'm not quite sure about the rear, because Xantia has bigger and softer bump stops than previous Citroen vehicles, probably acting as 'supplemental springs', like in other newer cars with conventional suspension.
Xantia MkII 1.8 16V I've test driven last time was riding about 1.5 cm low (2 cm below the midpoint) on the front, leaving only about 5 cm of strut travel for compression, but didn't feel any touching of bump stops - the ride was very smooth, different, but better than in my BX with GS spheres.
Hi, A big question, Have you replaces your LHM fluid? If you haven't, get some Hydroflush and replace your LHM with it. Run your car with hydroflush in the system for about a month, this will clean your hydraulic system out and also it will make your ride softer as it is a different fluid. Then drain out your system and give your LHM tank a good clean out, clean all your filters in the LHM tank and then refill your system with new lhm. Follow the instructions in the HAYNES Xantia manual, fairly easy job really, just messy.Also, what condition is your front height corrector in? It may be that it is full of crap built up over the years from the road. Try doing what I have done to all my past BX's and Xantia's. Get your car up on ramps and make sure that is won't move. Go underneath and find the height corrector. Plaster it with gunk or similar and leave it for 15 mins, then power wash it off but dont do the rest of the car underneath 'cos you'll get dripped on from everywhere. Get some gloves and if you can get someone in the car to take orders, plater some good quality thick grease all over the linkages including the one that connects to the anti roll bar. Ask the person in the car to move the height lever back and forth for about 5 mins then put some more grease onto the linkages again just to get it into all the joints. Do the same for the rear height corrector and also put some grease onto any brackets that the rods go through.
now fire up the car and hopefully the car will raise up a bit more easier, if not, at least you have done a good maintianance job on the car.
If the height corrector isnt free, it will try to work against the hydraulic system and make the car raise up in a jumpy fashion and will also cause a hard ride.
Good luck
Paul
now fire up the car and hopefully the car will raise up a bit more easier, if not, at least you have done a good maintianance job on the car.
If the height corrector isnt free, it will try to work against the hydraulic system and make the car raise up in a jumpy fashion and will also cause a hard ride.
Good luck
Paul
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by akojic</i>
Question for Paul: What is gunk? I would like to go for this procedure on my Xantia. You have expalined the procedure very well, only do not understand what is gunk. Can I do washing of the correctors with WD40 oil? Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Definition of "Gunk."
I've always looked upon as a mix of rubbish, dust, grease, pollutants, mud in fact any kind of muck can be referred to as 'gunk' or possibly 'crap'.
In this instance, I think it is referring to possibly what I would use to soften the rubbish up with prior to washing off.
As far as washing off goes, if it's mud based, just good old deteregent & water would shift that and if there's any grease & oil involved, whilst WD40 would do the job it's possibly an expensive way to go. I personally would use either kerosene with an old paint brush, or a degreaser in an aerosol spray pack.
'twould appear that there is a cultural difference between your country's definition of gunk and a further difference between mine & Pauls.[:D][:D][:D]
Alan S
Question for Paul: What is gunk? I would like to go for this procedure on my Xantia. You have expalined the procedure very well, only do not understand what is gunk. Can I do washing of the correctors with WD40 oil? Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Definition of "Gunk."
I've always looked upon as a mix of rubbish, dust, grease, pollutants, mud in fact any kind of muck can be referred to as 'gunk' or possibly 'crap'.
In this instance, I think it is referring to possibly what I would use to soften the rubbish up with prior to washing off.
As far as washing off goes, if it's mud based, just good old deteregent & water would shift that and if there's any grease & oil involved, whilst WD40 would do the job it's possibly an expensive way to go. I personally would use either kerosene with an old paint brush, or a degreaser in an aerosol spray pack.
'twould appear that there is a cultural difference between your country's definition of gunk and a further difference between mine & Pauls.[:D][:D][:D]
Alan S
Hmmmm
Dug myself into a bit of a hole with this one. I want the ride height checking and adjusting. I'd normally go to an independant that I use but he supplied and fitted some spheres for me a few months ago which I've since replaced with non-turbo ones in my search for a better [softer ride]. He doesn't approve of this sort of behaviour. So I thought I'd trust the job to my local Cit dealer. They have quoted £15 to check the ride height and a further £45 to adjust it if required. Cost aside I just don't trust them to do the job:
1. properly
2. without damaging the rest of the car.
So can anyone say what is entailed, I have done a similar job years ago on a BX and am very aware of the safety aspects.
Incidentally find myself ogling other peoples Xantia's for ride height, it can be quite embarassing. I've noticed that the cars with the 14" wheels have a cavernous amount of space between wheel top and wheel arch. And most of the cars with 15" steel wheels also appear to have a substantial but lesser amount. My car has the 15" alloy wheels and I've not come across another one yet but the claerance on my car is visibly less. I think the next thing is that I'll be asking owners if I can do the push down test!
Mark_sp
Dug myself into a bit of a hole with this one. I want the ride height checking and adjusting. I'd normally go to an independant that I use but he supplied and fitted some spheres for me a few months ago which I've since replaced with non-turbo ones in my search for a better [softer ride]. He doesn't approve of this sort of behaviour. So I thought I'd trust the job to my local Cit dealer. They have quoted £15 to check the ride height and a further £45 to adjust it if required. Cost aside I just don't trust them to do the job:
1. properly
2. without damaging the rest of the car.
So can anyone say what is entailed, I have done a similar job years ago on a BX and am very aware of the safety aspects.
Incidentally find myself ogling other peoples Xantia's for ride height, it can be quite embarassing. I've noticed that the cars with the 14" wheels have a cavernous amount of space between wheel top and wheel arch. And most of the cars with 15" steel wheels also appear to have a substantial but lesser amount. My car has the 15" alloy wheels and I've not come across another one yet but the claerance on my car is visibly less. I think the next thing is that I'll be asking owners if I can do the push down test!
Mark_sp
Mark,
The prices you've been quoted to do the job are ridiculous; either he's never done one before or he's planning an overseas vacation to an exotic & expensive destination.[}:)]
Adjusting the suspension on any hydraulic Cit usually is a fairly basic operation involving the clamps on the sway bar or occasionally, the coupling rods btween the front & rear H/C assemblies. If you have access to a pit or as I have done before today, lifted the car on trolley jack & sat the wheels on large blocks of wood or ramps at the front & raised & chocked the rear wheels so as to be able to get weight on all wheels whilst giving clearance under in case of a "whoops." Jacks or axle stands lightly in place in case of a potential fall as a safety measure.
Dimensions seem to always be a debatable point and whilst there seems to be a thousand ways of measuring, the one usually recommended is the one I've found to be the most successful; that being a measurement from a designated part of the underbody to floor level which is usually marked by a piece of timber between the blocks under the wheels or ramps. Due to usually needing more than one adjustment to be made, this is where a pit or drive on hoist (as a dealer would have) will simplify & speed up matters. Just remember that too high an adjustment will give a "trampoline" type of ride whilst too low shortens the amount of travel & gives a kind of sports car type of ride.
I think you are much better doing the height adjustment yourself as this way you can set it just the way you want it whereas a repairer will set it the way he wants it which may not give you the result you are loking for. BTW, if you take an hour to do it you would have had a rest part way through[:D]
Alan S
The prices you've been quoted to do the job are ridiculous; either he's never done one before or he's planning an overseas vacation to an exotic & expensive destination.[}:)]
Adjusting the suspension on any hydraulic Cit usually is a fairly basic operation involving the clamps on the sway bar or occasionally, the coupling rods btween the front & rear H/C assemblies. If you have access to a pit or as I have done before today, lifted the car on trolley jack & sat the wheels on large blocks of wood or ramps at the front & raised & chocked the rear wheels so as to be able to get weight on all wheels whilst giving clearance under in case of a "whoops." Jacks or axle stands lightly in place in case of a potential fall as a safety measure.
Dimensions seem to always be a debatable point and whilst there seems to be a thousand ways of measuring, the one usually recommended is the one I've found to be the most successful; that being a measurement from a designated part of the underbody to floor level which is usually marked by a piece of timber between the blocks under the wheels or ramps. Due to usually needing more than one adjustment to be made, this is where a pit or drive on hoist (as a dealer would have) will simplify & speed up matters. Just remember that too high an adjustment will give a "trampoline" type of ride whilst too low shortens the amount of travel & gives a kind of sports car type of ride.
I think you are much better doing the height adjustment yourself as this way you can set it just the way you want it whereas a repairer will set it the way he wants it which may not give you the result you are loking for. BTW, if you take an hour to do it you would have had a rest part way through[:D]
Alan S