Tires for snow/ice ? Xantia in particular.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 03 Dec 2010, 13:45

Hi All,

I don't have a car at the moment (sadly) but after watching all the carry on around me by people ill equipped to drive in snow (including neighbours who can't even get in and out of our car park!) I was wondering what people's thoughts were on tires for snow and/or ice ?

In particular does anyone have any experience of driving on snow in a Xantia with Michelin XM1 ?

I had 205/60/15 XM1's on my Xantia and I originally chose them for their shoulder tread depth and design, with wide deep horizontal grooves on the shoulders that a lot of tires don't have.

I don't know about here, but many country roads in New Zealand are still metal (stone gravel) and more traditional narrow groove tyres don't have much grip on gravel or dirt roads, but the XM1 were great, on dirt/mud as well. I never tried them on snow or ice as we never got those conditions back home, unless you drove up a mountain.

So how would they fare in snow/ice compared to other tires ? I notice that a lot of people who are spinning their wheels have low profile tyres that might as well be slicks with V shaped cut-outs - about the worst thing I could imagine for snow or ice.

Are purpose designed snow tires significantly better than an XM1 ? I had a look at some of the current Michelin snow tyres on their website and I see they have a lot more wide horizontal grooves and tread blocks than even the XM1. (which is really a hybrid design)

Are snow tires like the Pilot Alpin range ok to drive for a short time in dry weather as well ? (Presumably with somewhat reduced grip and increased wear over a dry weather tire)

Does anyone here run snow tires in the winter ? Just collecting a few opinions as when I DO get a car I think I may be investing in some, rather than being "that guy" who isn't prepared next time the snow comes

I'm pretty amazed that in a country where it does snow every year and black ice is quite common as well, that nobody I've seen seems to be prepared for it with the right type of tires, or have any idea how to drive on snow/ice...most peoples idea of getting unstuck seems to involve them revving the engine to the rev limiter in 1st gear while they don't even turn the steering....

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 03 Dec 2010, 19:22

"MICHELIN Energy XM1 helps to save money throughout the tyre life thanks to Michelin’s leadership on energy saving technologies." - from Michelin

It seems to be a summer tire which can be good but it is not for snowy or icy conditions

Here is a link for ---> Michelin Winter tires <---

*edit: Winter Tyre ---> 2010 Auto Express Winter Tyre Test <---

robert_e_smart · Post by **robert_e_smart** » 03 Dec 2010, 19:35

I have Michelin Aplin Primacies on my XM, and they are superb. This is my 3rd winter using them.

There is no problem using them in all types of winter conditions, even the dry. They are a softer rubber compound than normal Michelins, but they wear very well. I don't think they wear much quicker than regular summer tyres.

Post by **CitroJim** » 03 Dec 2010, 20:29

On my Activa I have Conti Contacts and whilst they';re very good in the summer, on snow and ice they're rubbish.

On my old V6 I have BF Groodrich at the front and some on the raer that are not a familiar make and they're bloody marvellous in snow and ice.

What they have in common is a very chunky tread pattern with very wide grooves and this seems to be the secret. The Activa Contis have very narrow grooves.

Downside of the V6 tyres is they're noisy in the dry.

I caution that the automatic gearbox with snow mode may mask any small deficiencies in the tyres. Laying power down very smoothly and gently in snow mode certainly helps traction.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 03 Dec 2010, 21:04

Normally I ran on Michelin energies as they're reasonably priced from Costco, but another tyre place was doing a special on P6s when Juliet needed them, so I gave them a try.
I was impressed with the grip, so when Cassy needed new tyres, I had her fitted with P6s too.
I can put my foot down in the wet and feel the tyres biting into the road, shed loads more grip than the energies.
Not had any issues on the ice around MK's carparks either, especially B&Q's which is doing a great impression of an icerink!

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 03 Dec 2010, 21:32

Ive been thinking about getting some winter tyres for my C5.

Winter tyres have more silica in the rubber compound - this increases wet grip and also increases the flexibility of the tyre in cold conditions. Summer tyres get very hard in winter months and therefore provide less grip in cold temperatures. A lot of cheaper brand tyres have much less silica in their compound, which is why generally, cheap tyres are very poor in wet conditions, and why top brands often excel.

In fact, tread design has relatively little to do with grip, its all about the rubber compound. Tread design does obviously have an effect, but without the right compound its useless.

Winter tyres have small sipes in the tread, which increase the flex of the tyre and increases grip on snow and ice. Depper tread depth than summer tyres and more open grooves also help. But again its down to the compund to keep them supple in cold weather.

I was parked next to a car with snow tyres fitted today, The only car ive noticed with them on. It was a S reg Micra! Very rotten so maybe its just the winter hack!I also say a Saab 93 Tourer wearing winter tyre socks, which might be handy to have in the car if you ever get stuck.

So now im not so sure about winter tyres for my car, ive had no problems with grip with my Michelins Primacy HPs, true they are not quite as grippy in snow as my previous V tread patterned Toyos, but i guess they bit into snow better. For summer tyre i can't fault these Michelins in the recent cold spell. Im very surprised how sticky the tread feels to touch in these temperatures. There slightly closed tread doesnt seem to help in deep snow, but ive not had any problems which makes me think i should have winter tyres.

Some roads have been bright ice, even the motorway this morning was just sheet ice, the car twitched about a bit at first, but it was fine and quite confidence inspiring despite the recent weather and deep snow.

Making sure you have good quality tyres and a good tread depth should see you through the recent weather if its not overly bad in your area. But if i had cheapo bald tyres id be panicking!

Though if i got a set the difference in grip would probably be like night and day. Might be worth getting a set.

Post by **RichardW** » 03 Dec 2010, 22:17

Weather's a bit tough up here in Lanarkshire at the moment, isn't it Mandrake??!!

Xantias (well diesels anyway

) are pretty good in the snow - made it Lanark - Grangemouth every day this week. I'm running Toyo Proxes which I was impressed with in the dry, and they seem to be performing well in the snow for a summer tyre. I meant to get some winter tyres, but never got round to it - now you can't get them for love nor money! What ever you do don't buy Pirelli P6000s - they have wide continuous bands round them to improve summer grip, but they are rubbish in the snow (especually when wide tyres are fitted to small cars with light alloy high revving 16V petrol engines). Seems that most people have forgotten / never knew how to drive in the snow though

Note to self - get finger out next summer and get some winter tyres in!

jan jensen · Post by **jan jensen** » 04 Dec 2010, 12:12

I live up in the north of Norway and here we use winther tires. I use with spike. but man can use without spike.
The tires are litle softer and are not so comfortable in the summer. And the best are tires 175 to 185/75. if man have 205 it are lithle problem.

But the most problem are asphalt on the tires and one morning the are snow on the road and man get problem.
The same happening her in norway if you get a lot of asphalt on the tires and wet snow. only problems, but after washing the tires with lencitil ore other stuff the tires are mutch better.

Michelin xice2 get a caracter 5 of 6 on test and are a god tire for use .

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 04 Dec 2010, 12:35

This article was interesting and wanted to share with you all

"...Continental has delivered nearly 400 per cent more winter tyres to the UK in October than in  the same period in 2009.
And  a spokesman for Goodyear said: “We have experienced shortages in some sizes due  to extreme demand, but are increasing our production ...”

Read more here in: autoexpress.co.uk ---> Winter tyre KO as big freeze hits <---

jan jensen wrote:I live up in the north of Norway and here we use winther tires. I use with spike. but man can use without spike....

You are allowed to use spikes only in Scandinavia, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania which is the "most southern border"

Not in UK

Post by **CitroJim** » 04 Dec 2010, 13:18

Listening to "Money Box" on BBC radio 4 today, there was an item about running winter tyres in the UK.

Apparently some insurance companies have got the arse-ache about it iand have declared insurance null and void if the winter tyres are not the exact same specification as the tyres specified for the car. If they are not the same speed rating and size then that's it, your Insurance just becomes a useless scrap of paper.

Talk about lunatics taking over the asylum

Something that positively helps safety in adverse weather is in danger of being still-born because of this.

All insurance companies ought to be taken outside and given a stern talking to whilst their noses are rubbed in snow until they see sense.

I despair at times...

Chris570 · Post by **Chris570** » 04 Dec 2010, 14:57

CitroJim wrote:Listening to "Money Box" on BBC radio 4 today, there was an item about running winter tyres in the UK.

Apparently some insurance companies have got the arse-ache about it iand have declared insurance null and void if the winter tyres are not the exact same specification as the tyres specified for the car. If they are not the same speed rating and size then that's it, your Insurance just becomes a useless scrap of paper.

Talk about lunatics taking over the asylum Something that positively helps safety in adverse weather is in danger of being still-born because of this.

All insurance companies ought to be taken outside and given a stern talking to whilst their noses are rubbed in snow until they see sense.

I despair at times...

There is an easier explination here Jim...

its just another item to add to the list of "reasons not to pay out"

expect a hike in premiums next year for good measure

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 04 Dec 2010, 16:39

yep, I have winter tyres on my 607
the 607 has 225 wide tyres and they are rubbish in bad weather with aquaplaning in heavy rain and they scared the living daylights out of me a couple of years ago in slush and ice.
The car came with 17" rims

So last autumn I found a set of 16" 607 rims on ebay for £50. I bought two new Avon Ice Touring tyres and stuck them on the front and on the back the two best tyres that the ebay rims came with. It was a whole lot better. okay if I went mad in bad weather the back would step out before the front, but I can correct that, and it least I could go and stop.

This year I got a pair of used Michelin winter tyres on the back so now I have the complete set.

The difference is amazing.

I would recommend that you just find a set of cheap used steel wheels which should be easy for a Xantia (you might need different bolts as well). Narrow tyres and wheels are actually better in rain, snow and ice because they don't aquaplane and cut through snow better. Get a set of cheap or used winter tyres. Swap back your other wheels in March or so and put them in the shed or whatever.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 04 Dec 2010, 17:52

jan jensen wrote:I live up in the north of Norway and here we use winther tires.... Michelin xice2 get a caracter 5 of 6 on test and are a god tire for use .

It has been very cold up in the north

I found this pic in Norwegian meteorology site.
It was taken in Folldal (I didn't check exactly where in Norway) on December 1st 2010!
I hope you have good engine oil for those arctic conditions

.

Michelin X Ice 2 is a good tire

and here is the studded version X-Ice NORTH:

daviemck2006 · Post by **daviemck2006** » 04 Dec 2010, 21:19

I have 205/65x15 vredestien hitraq on my c5 which are brilliant in all weathers, including the 15inches of snow we have up here just now. On the wife's 206 it had 195/55x15 pirelli p6000 which were useless in snow last year and not much better in dry. Now replaced with vredeistein snowtraq2 185/60x15 all round, biught second hand off e-bay for £18 in summer (bargain of the year) 7 ml on front, 4ml on back and has transformed the grip so much I cant believe I've never had winter tyres before. The tread patterns are similar, snowtraq slightly wider grooves. Think I will be addicted to vrediesteins now!

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 06 Dec 2010, 09:35

VertVega wrote:"MICHELIN Energy XM1 helps to save money throughout the tyre life thanks to Michelin’s leadership on energy saving technologies." - from Michelin

It seems to be a summer tire which can be good but it is not for snowy or icy conditions
Here is a link for ---> Michelin Winter tires <---

*edit: Winter Tyre ---> 2010 Auto Express Winter Tyre Test <---

I think you missed the point of my post - yes, the XM1 is a "summer" tyre, however it's clear that different "summer" tyres cope better or worse with winter conditions than others, so I was trying to gauge where the XM1 stacks up compared to other tyres in practice, as the design of it seems to me to have some features that would lend themselves well to coping better in snow/ice than a lot of low profile slick tyres.

Obviously a purpose designed winter tyre will cope even better, but by how much is an interesting question.