Driving in the snow and ice

Post by **CitroJim** » 18 Dec 2010, 18:58

Xac wrote:Both Mercs and beemers are rear wheel drive aren't they?

Yep. RWD. There's no doubt that FWD is FTW in this weather

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 18 Dec 2010, 19:34

Xac wrote:An audi estate got stuck with its rear wheels spinning at a roundabout, so a couple of other cars had to stop and push them, still with their wheels spinning too fast.

If an Audi was spinning its rear wheels it would be a Quattro, so if the driver was struggling then they must be a complete muppet, I've spent the past week driving an A6 Quattro 3.0 TDi and traction away from a start on slippery surfaces is rather good to say the least.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 18 Dec 2010, 19:54

Looking on google, I don't think it was an Audi now, the back was quite bulbous, it may have been a subaru

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 18 Dec 2010, 21:55

Here's a thought, as ABS is considered to be a bit of a hindrance in the snow and ice, would it be better to disconnect the ABS ECU while we have white stuff on the roads?

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:02

i would, it makes working the brakes so much easier and with it off in the snow i can stop quicker without it.

D

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:03

Xac wrote:Here's a thought, as ABS is considered to be a bit of a hindrance in the snow and ice, would it be better to disconnect the ABS ECU while we have white stuff on the roads?

We discussed this on the Coupé forum as the Coupé's ABS kicks in FAR too early.

Conclusion was that yes it would be better, but for insurance purposes it shouldn't be done.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:21

I totally disagree about ABS, its there for safety and its of use in ice and snow. However ...

My C5 has ABS with EBD, which finds the wheels with more grip and applies more braking pressure to them, this you can feel working when braking hard in ice or snow and it does stop surprisingly quickly, must faster than if it didnt have both.

So im not sure if the Xantias lack the EBD (they might have it?) which might effect the ABSs effectiveness on snow/ice?

I tried one of our cars without ABS on our icey road, it was like polished glass the surface and even when touching the brakes it locked up and headed for the closest curb, before releasing the brake. The C5 stayed straight, was steerable when braking and stopped quicker than i thought.

Id not like to be without it now, id certainly not turn it off.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:27

On Xantias, being just ABS, when a wheel locks up due to it hitting ice, the brakes disengage, so stopping distances increase.

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:31

Im used to not having ABS, the only advantage ABS gives is that you can stab away at the brakes like a loon and still steer, unfortunatly it is not designed for very loose or icey surfaces and in such conditions will increase braking distances, this is why almost all crashes take place in icy and snowy weather, people dont know how to use the brakes, they just stab the pedal and then slide off the road in whatever direction the camber takes them, and yes the car will still slide with the camber with some ABS systems, my vans is one of these and so is my brothers Prelude (a disadvantage of ABS that lets the wheels skid a little)
EBD is a different animal altogether and is the next logical step forward from ABS and traction control and works very well indeed BUT As with all driving aid's it gets you out of practice and compacent, if you know you are controling the brakes and acceleration to stay on the road you pay attention to whats happening around you.
Besides i am against any driving aid that helps someone get off their driveway in the firstplace when their god given talent dictates that they really shouldnt have

D

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:41

I agree, driving aids should not be relied upon, but if they work, like ABS with EBD, its reassuring to know they are there.

Im used to not having any ABS or any driving aids, my C5s are the first cars ive owned with ABS so its still quite new. Obviously they shouldnt be used, but if you get into a difficult situation they might just help out.

Ive tested it a few times, to see how well it works, and find it really very good, though ive little experience with cars with just ABS and no EBD. Ill have to give the Xm a go but im reluctant to take it out in the snow and salt.

While i see they might make worse drivers, the fact is a lot of people have little idea of how to drive in poor conditions and if these aids stops crashes and saves lives then im all for them.

If i was faced with a steep decent covered in sheet ice id like to be in an EBD equipped car than a car without ABS, but once grip is lost your pretty much sledging no matter what aids you have.

Exactly the reason I cant fathom why people think more acceleration will get them free if they become stuck. Probably the only reason the are stuck in the first place is because the lost grip ad span their wheels, polishing the ice/snow.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:47

When I was learning to drive, my instructor was grateful that I had an understanding of how a car works because he'd make sure his students could answer basic questions about them, such as what it meant if certain dash lights came on and what you should do, how to check oil and top it up, and coolant too.
I think there should be a technical part of the theory test, people should understand the machine they are driving, maybe it will help them realise the responsibility they have.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 18 Dec 2010, 22:56

True, and they do have a 'show me, tell me' questions as part of the test. You have to be able to show the examiner how to check the cars oil, and other fluids. They have to explain how and when you would check the cars tyres and pressures, how to check the lights etc.

All very basic things, but being able to recite them and being able or willing to carry out checks on a regular basis is another thing. A lot of my mates do not ever check their cars over, if it breaks they might get it fixed, but thats about it. I never go in their cars!

Someone i know, until recently, had two bald front tyres, I mean smooth with the cords showing and running at a very low pressure 15-20 at a guess. He said he has never checked the oil but thinks the water might need changing (?) He passed his test 18 months ago, when the show me tell me questions had been introduced. They have no effect on some people.

There are so many clueless people driving with little to no ability in dangerous cars.

A technical test would be a good idea, but I think a common sense test would be more beneficial.

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 18 Dec 2010, 23:00

I dont know what it is about the XM's abs but it is far less intrusive than any other abs ive used, very soft indeed, does make a meal out of things in the snow like any other system but does the job.
Ive not had a problem delivering the other week in an old school vehicle, a Nissan Cabstar, no abs, RWD and Just like any other vehicle i drive the trick on icy slopes is to go very slow in neutral riding the brakes, if they lock up do some manual abs and then reapply, a friend of mine swears by the engine braking method but with ice i find the wheels end up either spinning or slipping on overun which drags the back end off with the camber of the road. Mind you My ABS is a little useless carrying coal up and down all those icy garden paths

I know what you mean about the XM Chris, im taking mine over to poole tomorrow to pick up the Activa's new furniture and im not looking forward to ploughing through all the salt

in a way i wish the roads were still covered in snow and ice at least its kinder to the cars.

D

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 18 Dec 2010, 23:02

Totally agree Xac, a bit of trained-in 'gumption' needs to begin from the
minute a new driver is introduced and taught by a decent instructor in
how to handle a car.

Something really needs to stop the numpties driving with a tyre significantly
deflated or even flat flapping about the wheelarch, pulling out into fast
flowing traffic using the 'force' and crawling forwards etc, etc, etc...

the list is endless.

Andrew

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 18 Dec 2010, 23:11

Talking about bad habits that are very noticeable, one thing I see most drivers
doing at a junction that really bugs the hell out of me! Why when turning right
in a parallel lane to the main thoroughfare do people 'jink' to the left over the
line of the adjacent lane in a fat person walking ponderously styley. Laziness?
Same turning off the road to the left, you know they're about to stop dead
and indicate left at the last second as they swerve out to the centre white
line before arcing left.

Andrew