4HP20 need opinion..

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Nov 2010, 18:10

dieselnutjob wrote: Approved by who?

Not by ZF

The TE-ML "approvals" they speak of are lists of required lubricants for various ZF products. The 4HP20 appears under TE-ML-11B and is a list of HP automatic Transmissions mainly.

Some do indeed use DEX II/III and in fact the 4HP20 is the only 4-speed ZF autobox that does NOT use DEX.

It clearly states that the 4HP20, along with the 5-speed autos use ZF Lifeguardfluid5 (ZF Part No. S671 090 170) and in the document, this cross-references to Citroen/Peugeot Part No. 1697 56 which is the AL4/4HP20 fluid and is in turn Esso/Mobil LT71141.

That is it. There is no other ATF suitable for the 4HP20. All the other part numbers in the list will just cross-reference back to LT71141.

I wonder if oil companies are making an assumption that all 4-speed ZF gearboxes use DEX and perhaps omit the detail that the 4HP20 is unique in that it does not.

Again, and I know we all say this until we're blue in the face, the ONLY ATF for the 4HP20 is LT71141. End of. Period. Full Stop. Debate Closed.

So yes, Valvoline (amongst many others) are being a little economical with the truth here...

And from your experience Toh, it would seem that DEX in a 4HP20 does indeed cause damage

EDIT: Look at page 6 of TE-ML-11B and it is clear where the confusion comes in...

It is a list of 11B lubricants and NOT LT71141 equivalents. If you look at it quickly, it appears to be....

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 01 Nov 2010, 20:15

I asked them on their contacts form what authority supplied them with "approval" to that BMW spec.
Lets see what they come back with.
I notice that they operate out Germany and if there is one thing that Germans understand its standards, approvals and authorities (sweeping generalisation accepted).

toh · Post by **toh** » 02 Nov 2010, 03:02

This is all info i have.

Post by **CitroJim** » 02 Nov 2010, 07:13

Valvoline are making a very clear claim there that the stuff is compatible with LT71141 but I remain very suspicious.

Why, for instance, do they not quote the Citroen/Peugeot approvals and why do they not quote ZF TE-ML-11 whereas Esso do? ZF TE-ML 14B, 16C and 17C have nothing to do with HP series gearboxes...

I remain firmly convinced that Valvoline are being a little lenient with the truth here...

Dieselnutjob, I shall be most interested in the response you may receive from the company

toh · Post by **toh** » 09 Nov 2010, 04:50

i bought the used 4HP20 from scrap yard

its cost 17 000 thai baht. including ECU and tourque.

now my PUG on the Road again. Thank Jim, Thank Frenchcarforum

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Nov 2010, 06:05

toh wrote: now my PUG on the Road again. Thank Jim, Thank Frenchcarforum

Good news Toh

I am very pleased!

The cost works out to around 350 UK Pounds. With ECU and Torque Converter, that is not bad at all. You would easily have spent that much on service items to rebuild your old gearbox.

A good result

spider · Post by **spider** » 09 Nov 2010, 10:54

Good to hear this has worked out well Toh

. I was following it with interest (although I was unable to post anything helpful)

, although I did notice a redish trace in the stripped box (and thought that the correct fluid is golden)

£350 or so is a quite reasonable price I think.

The last time I wanted an autobox (it was for a MK1 Mondeo of all things) about 5 years ago, the only place that had one within about 150 miles of me wanted £700 and would include the engine (both untested and out of the car), needless to say I did not get it.

toh · Post by **toh** » 13 Nov 2010, 05:45

its mileage around 40 000 km, the seller said.
they bought a completed car in Japan, drove to dismantle place and shipping to Thailand.

406D8 autobox with engine is a round 45 000 baht = 9xx Euro.

How much overthere?

i hope my autogearBox should be longer than 100 000 km. please. please...

Post by **CitroJim** » 14 Nov 2010, 16:54

toh wrote: How much overthere?

A reconditioned (rebuilt) one costs in the region of 2,000 euros in the UK Toh

toh wrote:i hope my autogearBox should be longer than 100 000 km. please. please...

If you keep the cooling system in good condition and replace the ATF with the right stuff (only LT71141) every 20,000Km or so then it will!

toh · Post by **toh** » 15 Nov 2010, 06:05

CitroJim wrote:
toh wrote: How much overthere?
A reconditioned (rebuilt) one costs in the region of 2,000 euros in the UK Toh

toh wrote:i hope my autogearBox should be longer than 100 000 km. please. please...

If you keep the cooling system in good condition and replace the ATF with the right stuff (only LT71141) every 20,000Km or so then it will!

2000 Euro for rebuilt Oh!! just only rebuilt 81,000 baht wow.
81000 baht, i can buy 4 used gearboxes.

thank you for recommendation JiM. i will do with love