Diesel pump woes

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 23 Oct 2010, 14:55

A quick update - I've just finished stripping it and attempting to put it together again. Started up a treat, but still no throttle response. I am thinking I might have a different problem, as it was all assembled when I took it out... Any thoughts?

Post by **CitroJim** » 24 Oct 2010, 15:07

Kev,

If not a mechanical problem internally, you may have a return banjo bolt on the supply side. They look identical but the banjo bolt on the return side has a tiny hole whereas the feed banjo bolt has a large hole. Reverse them and the small hole in the banjo just about allows enough for idel but not for revving...

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 25 Oct 2010, 11:38

Thanks again Jim. I have since had the pump out and apart again and stripped and rebuilt the top end once more. I am absolutely certain that the trottle arm was locked into the throttle plate this time, and the little sprin was also attached on the other arm (cold start or similar?).

Anyway, I have just put it all back together and still have exactly the same problem. I have checked the supply and return bango bolts and they are in the corrcet locations (they are actually different on mine, one hex, one allen head).

I'm on the verge of scrapping it now as I am sick of it! Petrol every time for me from now on, they make much more sense!!!

I really am out of ideas now.

Kev

Post by **CitroJim** » 25 Oct 2010, 12:19

Don't scrap it yet Kev,

I've gone a way to think about this.

Does the engine start easily and with no smoke?

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 25 Oct 2010, 12:35

Hi Jim, it starts readily with a little puff of smoke. It's a little lumpy but settles down in a few seconds. Was like this before I took the pump out to remove the immobiliser though - I put it down to the injectors weeping into the cylinders (it's done about 130k).

Is there any chance it could be down to getting something other than fuel into the pump whilst it was apart?

I'm going to pop down the local breakers today to see if they have any diesels in that share the same pump - long shot I know!

Post by **CitroJim** » 25 Oct 2010, 12:56

kevgriggs wrote:I'm going to pop down the local breakers today to see if they have any diesels in that share the same pump - long shot I know!

Look for a non-turbo BX Kev, or maybe even a ZX.

The big pity is that the vast majority of non-turbo diesels had Lucas pumps fitted.

The Bosch is a bit of a rarity but you never know your luck

Post by **CitroJim** » 25 Oct 2010, 20:53

Kev,

I've been giving this issue some thought. The fact the engine starts OK is good.

First test is to see if the idle speed increases when you move the fast idle lever, the one indicated by the red arrow in the picture. If the speed rises then good.

Now, when you had the pump apart and you removed the throttle lever, did you mark the position on this so that it went back on the throttle shaft inc EXACTLY the same position? I normally scribe a line across the lever to like up with the slot in the top of the threaded part of the shaft. If it's even a couple of teeth out, the rev range will be compromised.

If you did not mark and are not sure if the lever and shaft are correctly aligned, Remove the lever and start up. With the lever off, try turning the shaft (now free to go anywhere) and see if the engine will rev. If it does, that was the problem. Replace the lever so that the engine is idling as the lever sits against the idle stop screw and immediately revs as the lever is moved. When doing this take care as the engine may over-rev if you go too mad at it...

If that draws a blank, did you disturb the setting of the maximum delivery screw (green arrow in picture)?

This setting is very critical and if badly maladjusted will prevent the governor operating at all and idle is all you'll get. To adjust, very slowly adjust until the engine will just red-line at full throttle, no more.

If it still won't rev and the fast idle lever makes no difference, did you get the fast idle spring reconnected when replacing the lid? It's the spring shown by the arrow in the photo below..

I hope that gives some ideas Kev. If that does not reveal the cause then I'm stumped

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 27 Oct 2010, 14:35

Going to start a new thread - the ongoing issues are different now, and not entirely relevant here!

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 27 Oct 2010, 14:49

New thread location:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=33010

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 27 Oct 2010, 15:22

Sorry Jim, I didn't see your post before starting the new thread. In short, the fast idle lever works, and position seems to make no difference. I did not mark the throttle lever (I got trigger happy with the spanner before I realised) but have eliminated that by doing as you suggest.

I did however remove the max speed screw, but carefully counted turns on both pumps as I removed (made reassebmly easier).

I too am stumped, and am wondering if the fault lies elsewhere and it is just convinient that I have removed the pump...

The only thing I do notice, is that the EGR closes when I operate the throttle arm about 50%, so something is happening at least!!

Thanks for all the help,
Kev

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 27 Oct 2010, 15:58

Jim, I have just gone back to have a look at adjusting the throttle shaft without the lever attached - on the replacement pump it has worked! I have throttle response once again!

I owe you a beer or three I think.

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Oct 2010, 19:45

Kev,

That's brilliant news

I was really worried when I saw you'd opened another thread as well...

After reading both, all is now clear!

I'm delighted. Great news at the end of a very difficult day...

kevgriggs · Post by **kevgriggs** » 27 Oct 2010, 20:30

I'm over the moon! I was thinking about buying another van, but this one is really good other than the immobiliser issue.

I can't believe I made such a silly mistake - a real school boy error

Only reason for opening another thread was that I was convinced I had a different problem and removing the pump had just masked something really obvious that I had missed. We were both talking about just the pump and I was hoping for different suggestions....

Only issue now is that it is a touch smokey above about 3/4 revs, but I am thinking this is probably down to the pump timing and if it causes an issue I will ask the garage to adjust that when they MOT it - The rev counter and speedo don't work on the van, so I have no way of adjusting the max fuel pstop screw safely either. Leave that to the pro's.

Anyway, thanks again for all the support Jim - I am starting like the relative simplicity of the diesel engine now